Talk radio Julia Hartley-Brewer & Lily Madigan

[GrimDamnFanjo]

Painful.

'He absolutely lost it and ending up storming out of the pub'

Hmm, interesting. What was he so furious about?

I hear you @Fivepastels it's very disturbing to agree with some views from people that you would not agree with on lots of other issues. This issue transcends party politics. Unfortunately lots of people are using this to beat the Labour Party with and I can't really blame them. I'm a current LP member & previously big supporter of JC. I find myself wavering now! I don't feel good about it at all.

I have found myself cheering Nick Ferrari, Piers Morgan and now JHB! The world really has gone mad when it's this lot who are standing up for women!

I applaud JHB standing up and speaking about the issue, but there's always a 'but maybe I'm wrong' that floats through my head when I hear right wing people whose views I would never, ever usually share agreeing with me on this

Yes. Considering how much time I spent thinking during the Brexit campaign, how could anyone be happy to be on the same side as Le Pen, Farage, Gove, Johnson..... the company you keep should be telling you something.... I actually think it's important we don't just take what crumbs there are - 'well it's fucking Rod Liddle whose every word is usually dreck but he agrees on this so that's a win' - and distinguish the voices that are credible and useful (from Jenni Murray to Sarah Ditum, to Robert Webb and Graham Linehan, for starters)

Fivepastels, it's awful that your friend reacted that way. I wonder if he'd be willing to date a trans woman, or, if he's gay, a trans man.

Doesn’t this just show that politics is hard to categorise as you will be possibly left wing in some ideas and right wing in others. I consider myself fluid in regard to party politics. I never know who I’m going to vote for until the election and I’m reading all the policies and news reports.

I'm very left wing, still very much a Corbyn supporting member of the Labour Party too, with no intention of leaving. I had this discussion with my fellow left wing, male, friend on Saturday evening and said I was worried about the impact self-identification would have upon women's rights. He absolutely lost it and ending up storming out of the pub. When I apologised for him being upset and said I didn't want to fall out the next day, my reply was 'OK, thanks.'

Does it not ring alarm bells to you that this male reacted with anger at you expressing concern for your rights?

I don't think you should have apologised but I know it's easy to say that so I'm not judging.

This lefty male clearly doesn't really care about your feelings so I wouldn't be so quick to prioritise his in the future.

Does anyone have that great 'we've fulfilled our women quota' illustration featuring Danielle m, beardy Alex etc around the board table that they could tweet JHB? Bet she would share it!

I'm left wing and always will be - I don't see this issue as causing a problem for that, only with the Labour party as it is currently operating.

There's nothing left or right wing about thinking that gendered behaviour is innate, that there are souls and gendered brains, that gender is more important than sex and being a woman means what you like, how you think, and what you buy.

bangkokhilton it infuriates me when people use it to bash the Labour Party, as the other Parties are by no means deeply committed to women's rights and I think the Labour Party still stands as the most committed to achieving equality. At least the Labour Party has all-women shortlists to start with. I think they've completely miscalculated this issue, but I would like to think it comes from a instinctive place of 'acceptance of everyone' rather than 'how can we ruin women's rights further'.

It really does worry me sometimes when I feel like I stand alone in opposition to the people whose views I share that I'm wrong. Someone asked me the other day if I worried that I'd be on the wrong side of history, and to be honest I do. But I don't think I will be.

Lottapianos we were a few drinks in, but I said basically 'I worry self identification will impact the rights of women', and he started getting arsey and asking how, I mentioned refuges, prisons and women's sport, and the last thing he said was (I think quite aggressively, which I've never seen him like before) 'no one cares about the Olympics!', then he picked up his coat and stormed out. It went on longer than that but that was the gist. It was so, so strange. He's been a good friend for nearly 20 years and it really took be aback. I'm really quite upset about it.

hahaha 'I'm going to self identify as a young multi-millionaire'.

I don't think this is about left vs right personally, this is about women's rights not being adequately protected in my view.

If Self-ID was implemented with better thought out protections for women only spaces (and not any old dude calling himself a woman), then I would have no issue with it.

yes five, I see this as more of a right vs right dilemma - transwoman have rights to protection, but women also have rights to protection, and that's where the clash is. And yet people don't seem to be able to see that.

Also enjoying Lily trying to go up an octave halfway through answers.

Omg that was toe curlingy painful. The OP who mentioned a cult has it spot on IMO

'So you're saying if you put a skirt on you can stand on an all women's shortlist'

"Lily is a formidable activist and campaigner."

Didn't see any evidence of that in the interview. It was shambolic, stuttering and ill-prepared.

If that's what LM is like when faced with a radio interviewer, I shudder to think how LM will cope when debating with the likes of Ken Clarke in Parliament.

Yes, this is a cross-party issue about freedom of speech, fear of calling out the emperor's new clothes, and disguised misogyny. People across the political spectrum, including some trans people, share these concerns.

Deeply committed, passionate socialist women are calling out the same thing as right wingers. They may look through different lenses and perspectives but they can all see there is something deeply wrong in the way this issue is being handled by Labour.

I kind of see PPs points about the table analogy being innapropriate but I am not entirely sure why? Can someone explain to me in simple language why identifying as an object you physically cannot be, is any different from identifying as a sex characteristic you physically cannot be?

I am not being obtuse or anything, I just dont understand why table is offensive, but the comparison to age/race/height etc... isnt?

I do get that the use of table might seem a bit reductive, but does it not prove the same point?

I don't think you should have apologised but I know it's easy to say that so I'm not judging. I didn't want to apologise but I was upset about it and another friend said to leave it too long before getting in touch or it'd be harder and harder to do so. I was very careful to say 'sorry you were upset' rather than 'sorry for my views'. I thought he'd text back saying 'yeah, me too, let's forget about it, etc.', but no, just 'OK, thanks.'

If Self-ID was implemented with better thought out protections for women only spaces (and not any old dude calling himself a woman), then I would have no issue with it.

100% agree. But if you dare mention it people go on as if you've just announced that you want to go out and lynch all transgender people.

I say people, the men I've discussed it with are the ones disagreeing and throwing temper fits, whereas just thinking about it now not one single woman has disagreed with me. Albeit there's only been about 8 people I've actually discussed it with.

"I shudder to think how LM will cope when debating with the likes of Ken Clarke in Parliament"

Pre-approved questions only, I imagine, all submitted five days before the debate. Afterall, Lily is a vulnerable, young, trans girl.

Is someone able to explain why every time they run onto a fight race is used as an example

Race for life for instance compared to black people not being allowed a seat on a bus

Yet when someone says "I'm black you have to treat me as such " it's "inappropriate"

I'd love an answer to this too. I'm fed up with idiots like Paris Lees and her ilk comparing Trans issues to racism..black people this black people that comparisons constantly -

Do shut up and fuck off Lees & crew. You don't give a shit about black people and likely don't know any on a personal basis either. LM can go back to being a silly boy tomorrow - black doesn't rub off.

Believe it or not black women are women too, and pissed off with being called to this bullshit; all whilst the microaggressions we experience daily on top of being the dreaded 'Biological Woman' (you can fuck off with 'Cis' too), being denied and minimised.

I also find LM's breathy little-girl-lost impersonation of a female voice quite insulting.

It's such a toe-curling weak little woman impression and nothing at all like the clear-voiced and articulate females I know.

If LM wants to be seen as a woman she'd do a lot worse than to drop her Bo Peep act for one.

But fivepastels doesn't it worry you that this group of people won't even listen to your concerns? I have no wish to bash labour either, but the whole thing is ridiculous.

So pathetic

fivepastels sorry that happened to you, I would say that given the reaction he had, you touched a particular nerve. He is in a position he cannot logically argue from, but he feels he is right (because he has been told so like we all have) and his answer was to storm off to close down the conversation, he knew it was impossible to continue to hold his current dogma in the face of your rational logic, so he ostriched.

You were just effectively ‘no platformed’ by a man.