Talk radio Julia Hartley-Brewer & Lily Madigan

[GrimDamnFanjo]

Painful.

She seriously is NO NONENSE - wow! Ferocious! Utterly brilliant .... Amazing.....

Though quick reality check with myself ... this is what I would have expected from the media all along.... the mystery is still why there havent been more interviews like this

Crossing my fingers this is just the first of many!

Yes. This is what we were saying yesterday about bluntness on the other thread.

I am never going to like a right winger like JHB. But here we can see that the blunt tactic works.

What we need now is someone from the left (like wot I am) using the same bluntness.

I think the dual approach of both blunt and totally reasonable / friendly is better still. It means you can't say its just right wing intolerance or people being uneducated

(Good cop / bad cop)

I think JHB knows exactly who LM is.

Ah, you're probably right. No doubt her staff researched him before the interview.

I don't know anything about JHB except that she's strongly pro-Brexit. Is she conservative? Because that would explain the no-nonsense way she approached the interview. I find that liberal/left women tend to have an automatically reverent approach to trans issues, and voice any objections they have very cautiously, prefixed with many Hail Marys disclaimers about the discrimination and violence trans-identified people face. It inhibits critical thinking on this issue, even when it comes to women who are normally very smart and disinclined to swallow bullshit.

Congratulations all pervs, peeping-toms, stalkers and creeps out there, you have just won a free pass to every female changing room, ward, prison and refuge, all you have to do is say "I'm a lady" and you're in. Hurrah, and if women object they're guilty of a hate crime. Aaahaha, get the champagne out, lads!

I had a look at Lily's Twitter feed to see if they'd posted it , and they have done (in Lily's position I'd be too embarrassed to advertise myself being made a fool of). Typically almost all the replies are about what a wonderful person Lily is and how nasty JHB was being. The usual, in other words. The lack of self-awareness is extraordinary.

I'm a liberal/left woman and am certainly not reverent about trans issues.

Ah, sorry, I see LangCleg answered my question upthread

Thanks!

Yep, we do need a left-winger prepared to be this blunt. It would be tough going, maybe even career ending, for anyone who tried though. One reason RW women are able to permit themselves to not only speak bluntly but even think critically about this is they know they won't face censure and ostracisation from those on their own side for doing so.

Ha, me too tobee!

I meant media types specifically - there are a few LW wing journalists who are prepared to publicly question trans doctrine (Sarah Ditum, Helen Lewis), but none have done so as bluntly as this.

Wow. That was bloody perfect wasn’t it. I just love how Lily would happily accept Julia was a man but not that she was s black man. Dangerous territory isn’t it? They are walking an incredibly thin line.

This really cheered me up following the Labour news!
Thanks for posting, I am 100% certain that anyone who listened could not have come away thinking WTAF!?
This person is a Labour women's officer just beggars belief.

I am (again, cos I'm a wuss) torn about this.

I really hate jeering at anyone who can't string an argument together, and I'll even include the Madigan in that because s/he was brought up in the weirdness that is the current school and internet environment.

I would hate to hear someone with acute gender dysphoria mocked and told that calling themself female is equivalent to declaring that they are a table, just as I'd hate anyone to jeer at my autistic child who sometimes CANNOT force themself to behave as most children do.

I would, though, like to hear the same sort of interview with a matter-of-fact transgender person who will get in there and explain why they present as the opposite sex, and how this differs from 'getting dressed.'

Julia is now officially my favourite presenter. She was very clear in pointing out all the flaws in allowing self ID. On the other hand, LM didn't come across very well at all.

I usually cringe when LM speaks but I laughed at that more than once. Utterly ridiculous!

I did note that LM said that 'if you say you're a man/woman and really believe it then I'll believe you' which I thought
was interesting. If you are a woman then why do you have to believe it? Surely you know it? Saying believe suggests that, well, there's some belief required due to lack of proof. Ie 'there's no way of knowing for sure but I'm convinced'. But I don't believe I'm a woman, I know I am by virtue of my biology etc etc etc. It simply is due to the meaning of the words we use.

Since when were sex and gender belief systems?! It smacks of buying into delusion.

I don't think I've ever cringed so much in my life.

While checking Twitter for more responses to this interview I found this:

RHUL society have invited LM to speak on International Women's Day:

"We’re thrilled to have @madigan_lily come and speak to us tomorrow for International Women’s Day 👏✨🌹

We are thrilled to have Lily Madigan come and speak to us as we celebrate this year’s International Women’s Day.

Lily is a formidable activist and campaigner. She was elected as her CLP’s women's officer in November 2017 and is the first transgender person to hold such a title. She devotes her time to fighting for the rights of transgender women within politics and society itself.

There will be an opportunity for a Q&A session after she speaks to us.

Please come along to what promises to be a really interesting and insightful event. "

Interesting that it even says in this description that "she devoted her time to fighting for the rights of transgender women" ...even LM's fans acknowledge LM does nothing for women!!

Dodo, presumably Lily believes in her ability to make an argument publicly or they wouldn’t have entered the world of politics.

Also, can anyone actually explain to me what this "lady brain" is that trans women say they possess? Is there a definition?

Because although I have a vagina, boobs and periods I don't think I have one. I don't like pink or nail extensions, I wear jeans and wellies most days and I watch the rugby. I can't stand housework.

I must have a man brain. That must mean I'm a man.

I fancy men, so I must make me a gay man.

Wait, so does that mean I get a pay rise?

Wow. The irony is that race is more of a construct than sex anyway (and both JHB and LM didn't distinguish between sex and gender, which is a shame), and yet LM won't go anywhere near that as a fluid personal individual thing!

The problem is that it's only people who don't care how appalled they will make other people, like JHB, who say this stuff, so it gets correlated with being a right wing dickhead (Clarkson, Liddle, Bushell). Those of us who generally prefer to be polite, and fear being censured and hated, do not, and so the conversation is dominated on the gender-critical side (not that I imagine any of those people consider themselves gender-critical) but those who think of this as just another manifestation of PC, and rehash the tired 'what if I say I'm a parsnip' line - ultimately I'm not sure it helps.

But it was still excellent to hear LM not having a fucking clue what he was talking about so very obviously.

Sorry missed out "Labour Society" from my previous post - should read "RHUL Labour Society. They have also posted this:

"The reaction of some to us having @madigan_lily as our speaker for International Women’s Day is completely wrong and has no place in politics. We are proud to have an incredible woman such as Lily come and speak to us and any abuse will be swiftly reported and blocked."

Interesting that it even says in this description that "she devoted her time to fighting for the rights of transgender women" ...even LM's fans acknowledge LM does nothing for women!!

Well obviously Lily can’t campaign for anything that impacts only biological women because that would indicate that natal women and transwomen are different. 😆

I don't know anything about JHB except that she's strongly pro-Brexit. Is she conservative?

She is. I'm very left wing, still very much a Corbyn supporting member of the Labour Party too, with no intention of leaving. I had this discussion with my fellow left wing, male, friend on Saturday evening and said I was worried about the impact self-identification would have upon women's rights. He absolutely lost it and ending up storming out of the pub. When I apologised for him being upset and said I didn't want to fall out the next day, my reply was 'OK, thanks.'

I won't be mentioning it again to anyone. I applaud JHB standing up and speaking about the issue, but there's always a 'but maybe I'm wrong' that floats through my head when I hear right wing people whose views I would never, ever usually share agreeing with me on this.

(That's not a criticism of right wing women, the issue of women's rights I think transcends politics, it's just jarring to come together with those you usually oppose, and I do think it may be harder for those on the left to voice their opposition when their own and their comrades' natural instinct is to defend and protect transgender people.)

Apologies for the clumsy wording!

'incredible woman'

Hmm.

Words have meanings.

I'd prefer to be represented by a credible woman.

People have their own views on a spectrum. Their opinions in general may match and fit into the ideology and sometimes not. We are each imperfect and each individual.

"and rehash the tired 'what if I say I'm a parsnip' line - ultimately I'm not sure it helps."

Yes, I dislike this as an argument. There are plenty of rational ways to attack the trans ideology without being disingenuous. I don't doubt that on some level, many trans women, however misguided, believe they're women. JHB, meanwhile, doesn't believe she is a table. So it's this idea that belief=objective reality which needs to be shown up as the horseshit it is. Saying "I feel like a table" when you don't just convolutes the issue. I think age is a better example, because I'm sure many people, if they wanted to embrace stereotypes, could believe that they are trans age. I could definitely go between child and pensioner according to the stuff I enjoy watching and doing, and I imagine, if trans age became an accepted thing, there are many people who would go down that route. We already have sayings like "age is just a number."

Such a RELIEF to have someone in the media saying it like it is without apology or qualification. An absolute bloody breath of fresh clean mountain air.

(It makes me realise the extent to which I've been socialised to apologise and qualify. I would never be able to speak that plainly, though inside I'm screaming.)