Talk radio Julia Hartley-Brewer & Lily Madigan

[GrimDamnFanjo]

Painful.

JHB is pretty assertive. I wouldn't like to be interviewed by her.

One thing that comes out of this is that LM clearly hasn't been media-trained. I'd half-assumed that LM was being used by other TRAs as a way of pushing the trans (read MRA) agenda in the Labour Party. I still think that's probably the case, but it sounds as if the TRAs have simply latched onto LM and are supporting them, rather than that they've identified them and coached them into the role.

Is someone able to explain why every time they run onto a fight race is used as an example.

Race for life for instance compared to black people not being allowed a seat on a bus.

Yet when someone says "I'm black you have to treat me as such " it's "inappropriate" ?

I don't under stand.

"So I can identify as a black man and you have to believe it?"
"Erm... erm... no."
"Why not?"
"That's different..."

Priceless!
See, I would say the biological differences (as opposed to social) that occur between the sexes absolutely dwarf those that occur between races. Plus I'm sure we can all find ancestors who were of a different race to what we would consider ourselves. But somehow race isn't up for grabs, while woman, a biological term, is.

The one that is really really giving me the rage at the moment (on Twitter, mostly), is ‘trans women are just a subset of women, like black or Asian women are’.

Oh fuck off.

JHB is a nasty piece of work so I'm confused to find myself cheering for her after listening to that! What a load of bloody nonsense from Madigan. Any sane person listening to that would be horrified. Good stuff

What's excellent about the interview is that she went straight for the logic of 'gender identity' itself. And brilliantly exposed it for the nonsense that it is.

Usually even when media types allow themselves a critical perspective on the trans doctrine, they pick around the edges of it, saying, ''Do you think an unscrupulous man might take advantage of this?' etc. In a weird way, that has the effect of reifying trans ideology, because you're accepting the central premise that some men are 'really' women inside, and then just asking if there might be the odd problem that arises from that.

And all the while the sheer absurdity of the claim at the heart of it - that being a man or a woman is an internal feeling - goes not just unexamined, but normalised.

I also had a bit of a chuckle at the bit where she was saying to Madigan that there were some men who hadn't had any surgery or even taken hormones who were now claiming to be women, obviously blissfully unaware that she was describing him.

It has to be said that Madigan didn't do homework when agreeing to be on this show. What did Madigan think would happen??

I don't for one minute think she was blissfully unaware.
She kept a remarkably straight face.

I don't for one minute think she was blissfully unaware.

I was just about to post that. I think JHB knows exactly who LM is.

The one that is really really giving me the rage at the moment (on Twitter, mostly), is ‘trans women are just a subset of women, like black or Asian women are’.

I detwittered myself recently so I haven't seen this for myself. But holy fuck that's bad! Women aren't one-dimensional!

I've just started tweeting on the issue as I don't tweet much ad was concerned I'd be deluged with hate tweets (although I'd then just not look at it for a few weeks ) but I've had nothing but people liking my tweets, not that I've done many. It does make me feel that we can win this argument. The self id lobby has only made gains because most people haven't thought about the implications or heard of it.

I just watched - it was glorious

JHB knows that LM can't possibly have a GRC.

I have a lot of lady love for JHB! That was exactly the kind of no nonsense Q&A the wider world needs to hear.

Because it'll peak everyone who thinks they are just being "kind" fucking hate that MN word to transpeople don't actually know what they think they're being kind about. This exposes it.

Haha! Not exactly Frost vs Nixon...

I'd love to see LM interviewed by Jeremy Paxman...

If gender is internal, WTF does anyone need to change their sex? If being a man or a woman is nothing to do with genitals and everything to do with internal feelz - WTF do you have to change your genitals [AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH]

What did Madigan think would happen??

That in the current climate no one with a high media profile will risk tackling the current trans ideology head on. This was possibly a more reliable assumption a few months back than it is now (fingers crossed).

He didn't say much but it is interesting not being on a softly, softly self publicity thing, or being interviewed separately so you can say what you want.

Interesting choice though.

Madigan isn't very intelligent....trying to be polite there!! Great interview!! Thanks Madigan for showing this nasty ideology up for what it is - misogynistic and rotten to the absolute core!!

Usually even when media types allow themselves a critical perspective on the trans doctrine, they pick around the edges of it, saying, ''Do you think an unscrupulous man might take advantage of this?' etc.

Yes. This is what we were saying yesterday about bluntness on the other thread.

I am never going to like a right winger like JHB. But here we can see that the blunt tactic works.

What we need now is someone from the left (like wot I am) using the same bluntness.

'Id love to see LM interviewed by Jeremy Paxman'

Thank you for this delicious thought

Poor little lad. He hasn't a clue has he?

It is funny though. The fawning from Dawn Butler et al has led young Madigan to feel validated in delusions of grandeur. But, unfortunately, it's just exposed the mixing up of MRA ambition and intellectual capacity. It doesn't take much in direct conversation to expose it. But Madigan is too thick to realise. People like Paris Lees have enough savvy to know when to refuse the interview.

Poor Lily is used to a much easier ride from sycophants on Twitter. I laughed a lot tbh