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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Talk radio Julia Hartley-Brewer & Lily Madigan

422 replies

GrimDamnFanjo · 07/03/2018 10:59

Painful.

OP posts:
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Kneedeepinunicorns · 08/03/2018 12:00

I seriously think we are in a modern version of the dark ages where science and rationality is abandoned in favour wild supersition and belief.

There's no few similarities to the societal triggers creating the Salem witch trials, and there were similar witch hysteria bursts in the UK where rational people suddenly believed in the highly superstitious and unseen over the rational and provable, and turned violently on friends and neighbours. Led by emotionally unstable and volatile teens. The fad raged briefly and consumed towns and villages with terrible violence and loss of life, then faded away within a couple of years.

Racism, sexism, all of this has always simmered away under the surface never quite gone over the last few decades, and we're going through a 'where's the line between feelings and reality/how much do feelings create reality/if I'm upset there's blame to place' phase culturally. In a way it's positive to get it all out in the open, take a full and informed look at it with modern eyes, and this time put it away for good, with laws that protect and work as they should without straying through unthinking sentimentality and popularism into the realms of regulating feelings, beliefs and thought policing. All things modern law and government has no business getting involved in.

We're already seeing the rise of women's liberation groups and meetings in a way that hasn't happened in my lifetime, and the average woman on MN starting to be aware that patriarchy and misogyny is alive, well and thriving in people like Owen Jones in a way a year or two ago we'd have claimed disappeared decades ago. We were told women had achieved equality and believed it. Now we're seeing very clearly that much of it was very shallow, those equal rights were on loan, and now men want those rights back it's becoming very clear that male socialised superiority is ingrained in society and our leadership. As an example, through MN I've learned some feminist theory concepts and language that previously only those committed to studying it would have known. That's a positive thing in the long term for creating serious change.

LadyMcLadyCrisps · 08/03/2018 12:24

Great post Kneedeep

BeyondDeadlySiren · 08/03/2018 12:45

It's not even 84%, it's 82%

www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/media/39147/bsa34_moral_issues_final.pdf

And there is no mention of self ID, the great big pink elephant in the room...

BeyondDeadlySiren · 08/03/2018 12:48

Hang on, scratch that. The BSA seem to have two versions, one with 82 and one with 84 Confused

Still, neither mention self ID

BeyondDeadlySiren · 08/03/2018 14:23

Oh btw, in answer to a post upthread - yes, table is feminine in French.

(Also feminine in Spanish, yet masculine in German.)

KittyMcKitty · 08/03/2018 15:33

Lily is saying the passport is in a female name but not Lily as she hadn’t settled on a name.

Lily came out as trans at the start of 2016 and was posting on YouTube as Lily in June 2016 so that really leaves v little time to get things sorted!

m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/transgender-schoolgirl-solicitor-suspension_uk_5800a8dae4b0010a7f3e6647

Talk radio Julia Hartley-Brewer & Lily Madigan
merrymouse · 08/03/2018 15:36

@lightiflaluna, ironically Ed is quite good at podcast chit chat, he just comes across as clueless on policy.

They had Jess Philips on to discuss the gender pay gap and she was quite clear that it was largely caused by women taking time off to have children, social conditioning that means that women feel they can’t ask for more and societal expectation that female jobs like caring for children should be badly paid.

And then a few weeks later he’s saying that people who don’t agree that gender is innate and that biology has nothing to do with being a woman are on the wrong side of history.

RadicalFern · 08/03/2018 16:03

Oh btw, in answer to a post upthread - yes, table is feminine in French.
(Also feminine in Spanish, yet masculine in German.)

And yet they try to tell us that gender isn't a culturally conditioned concept...

BeyondDeadlySiren · 08/03/2018 16:29

LM’s “Lola” passport (speculation, not fact Grin ) will still be sufficient, with a CoN deed showing the legal change from Lola to Lily.
or
Lily’s new “Lily” birth cert (or old “Liam” one plus CoN deed showing “Liam>lily”) would be fine, skipping out Lola entirely

BeyondDeadlySiren · 08/03/2018 16:31

PoE might be faffy, but it’s not rocket science

I’m more than willing to help if you are struggling, lil...

BeyondDeadlySiren · 08/03/2018 16:32

FYI, I’d like to state clearly that if LMs previous name is indeed Lola, that was just a lucky guess!! Grin

HairyBallTheorem · 08/03/2018 16:37

(scrapes at sub GCSE Italian) I think table is "gender fluid" Wink in Italian. IIRC it's la tavola when it's in its plain wooden incarnation and il tavolo when laid for dinner Smile

BeyondDeadlySiren · 08/03/2018 16:45

Just to be really weird, “little girl” (mädchen) is neuter in German Confused

AllMyBestFriendsAreMetalheads · 08/03/2018 16:50

Thanks, I'm singing Lola now Grin

Speedy85 · 08/03/2018 16:54

Just to be really weird, “little girl” (mädchen) is neuter in German

That’s because it ends in ‘chen’ which is a suffix meaning ‘small’ (so the word literally means ‘little maid’) and all words ending in ‘chen’ are neutral.

One of my favourite German words is ‘Teekesselchen’ which means a ‘little teapot’ Grin

harpyone · 08/03/2018 16:55

Fivepastels,
I think you have your own answer,its men getting angry,women understanding the dangers( and tbf there are trans women who also see the dangers to women and themselves). This isnt left or right wing,its a misogyny and antigay issue. I have seen men who are vehement on twitter being asked ’why dont you make room for feminine presenting men,they are your brothers,Why not embrace them?’Its a question that i think goes to the heart of the matter.

harpyone · 08/03/2018 17:00

Re the table analogy.
I suspect it was an interview technique. Give a daft example that lets the interviewee feel confident of dismissing, then ask a harder one that actually is relevant. In theory given the detachment of identity from material reality,we could identify as anything,but i think it was a sleight of hand type of thing before going for the argument that people will not accept, and that is race.

OlennasWimple · 08/03/2018 17:09

Stop press - LM's PayPal account is now in the name of Lily Madigan, so we can now all go and send money without worrying about deadnaming. Don't all rush now....

camomileteadrinker · 08/03/2018 17:25

I often wonder about UK comedy, especially now Graham Linehan has taken a bullet. Lots of comedies have been revised to fit in with modern standards, removal of what are now considered racist references, for example 'Paki shop' in Only Fools and Horses (I find it a pain in the arse as I notice all the omissions as I knew my favourite episodes off by heart - and it isn't racist). I would imagine most of our comedy from the 1960s-2000s would have to be changed to fit in with TIMs delicate sensibilities - lest we drive the poor poppets to suicide. Moreover, should all literature be now rewritten in gender neutral- trans approved language and pronouns? How would literature work if we cannot tell who is who by the language used? Using 'they' for each character would render meaning and interpretation null and void. Anna Karenina as a TIM? Othello as male lesbian? Where are we heading? Equally, how will a census work with self id? So many layers of nonsense and still the crap keeps building to suffocation levels. Peak after peak reached and climbed until I be breathless with wonderment..

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 08/03/2018 17:36

Maybe Lily has a purpose I can support after all

As Lily proves the ridiculousness of the argument that transwomen are women JHB didn’t even have to try and she can certainly put up an argument

While also highlighting how Labour just isn’t interested in holding discussions with anyone else than those who they support

LifelongVaginaOwner · 08/03/2018 17:39

I often wonder about UK comedy

All hail The League of Gentleman for keeping Barbara

LapdanceShoeshine · 08/03/2018 17:41

How would literature work if we cannot tell who is who by the language used?

Half of Shakespeare's plots seem to require cross-dressing Grin

Lottapianos · 08/03/2018 17:42

'All hail The League of Gentleman for keeping Barbara'

And giving Barbara some great gender critical lines Grin

BeyondDeadlySiren · 08/03/2018 17:58

Ah, yet another opportunity to post the fantastic ACRONYM...

Actively Considering Reassignment Or Not Yet Madeyourmindup

😂

Lottapianos · 08/03/2018 18:01

That's it! Couldn't remember it exactly. Brilliant Grin

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