Why are more women not worried about impact of transactivism?

[Scrambledogg]

It is largely thanks to MN that I have been made aware of the gender identification bill and the potential impact of it.

I have been reading more and trying to be better informed.

In some of articles I have read I have noticed the category of 'woman' divided into women and ciswomen. I find it very unsettling that I would be defined as the latter, as opposed to just as a woman.

When I raise this issue with my friends, they are largely unconcerned.

Why are not more women worried right now?

terfsrus
I know, isn't it? The first time I came across it my mouth was just open.

I very much doubt that salmon amd some others are going to return now

Oh, I don't know,Debbie tends to have a bit more staying power than that.

Never posts anything approaching a coherent position, but will stick around to argue the toss.

None of the threads she linked earlier said what she alledged they said, by the way, in case anyone couldn't be bothered to go to check.

Some of the tactics deployed by salmon, angelic and debbie are really interesting examples of why more women aren't expressing their concerns about the impact of transactivism. It's not that they're not thinking these things. It's that people shout "BIGOT" at them when they ask questions. Most "nice" people don't want to think that they're bigots. It's an incredibly powerful silencing technique.

"Angelic, in case it's not completely clear: nobody here thinks that gay people are more likely to be paedophiles than straight people. Because that is probably PROVABLY untrue, as you correctly say."

I hate my phone. Provably. Not probably. Gay people are provably no more likely to be paedophiles than straight people. Sorry.

None of the threads she linked earlier said what she alledged they said, by the way, in case anyone couldn't be bothered to go to check.

I know i read!!

She made me read for no good reason

I read, too.

Looks like that £50 is safe.

I should get the £50

Fact

Here's the question I keep on asking myself: "is it all that much of a big deal?"

When I "outed" myself as a TERF the other day, a friend made the very good point that self-ID hadn't caused major problems elsewhere, and that kids who present as a bit girly (or butch) aren't all going to be hauled off to go under the knife - to which I could add, also, that the group that endanger women most of all are straight men, and maybe we should be focusing on them . The main reason why I started taking an interest in this whole issue was because I felt like I was being told "Shut up, woman!" But in truth, before then, it wasn't a big deal for me.

(And as some people have said, and as I've experienced, being called BIGOT BIGOT BIGOT is horrible - and not half as horrible as starting to question yourself and say, "If this isn't going to affect me all this much, am I just kicking off because I'm a bigot?" I've been losing sleep. Worrying about my safety. Worrying about losing friends. Not wanting to go to social things I'd normally enjoy.)

Head in a bit of a mess about all this at present, I'm afraid.

Women's sports are finished, women only hospital wards and psychiatric wards no longer exist, yes that's a big deal. It is causing problems for women, here and elsewhere.

Even if one child is poisoned and mutilated in the service of an oppressive ideology that's one child too many

And it's not one child. It's already hundreds.

OP "Why are not more women worried right now?"

I have - sadly - come to the conclusion that it's as Germaine Greer said. Paraphrasing - most women just don't realise how much most men hate them.

smithsinarazz "Worrying about my safety. Worrying about losing friends.
Head in a bit of a mess about all this at present, I'm afraid."

yes, I had a really weird moment of going home from a drink with a friend who is on the side of the TRAs - mostly because she thinks men are harmless - and it was really late and I got in a cab and I was so relieved the male cabbie didn't want to start chatting.

I don't really like going out to bars etc anyway, but I have a feeling this particular friend is someone I'm going to lose. I just cannot get on board with someone who doesn't care about this. She also didn't get my rage over Weinstein and MeToo. She calls herself a feminist but really she's wildly optimistic about humanity in general.

sorry, that was random - but what you said was pretty much my brain the other night coming home from that bar.

self-ID hadn't caused major problems elsewhere

It's quite a mess in Canada
It's Illegal to misgender someone.
Certain conversations are illegal.
The press are tightly controlled so no deadnaming, all crimes recorded as new name and gender.
Prisons segregated by gender not sex
(I mean dear god, That's called unisex people! Why pretend otherwise?)

I wouldn't call these things "No problems"

It all happened under the radar and now ppl are waking up to WTF?

Misgendering is a human rights crime in New York City and the fine is up to $250,000.

that the group that endanger women most of all are straight men, and maybe we should be focusing on them

A vast majority of TIMs are straight men. Transgender includes cross dressers, AGPs. They fetishise womanhood, and are absolutely the biggest threat to emerge from the movement.

Lots of people talking about self-censorship on here.

Which is why I keep on asking myself, is it enough of a big deal to risk offending people? As a friend of mine pointed out the other day, self-ID elsewhere didn't cause problems, and there probably isn't an army of people ready to whisk off kids to the surgeon's. And, I might've added, women are more at risk from straight men than anyone else.. and I don't like getting undressed in front of anyone, never mind whether they're male or female..So, by choosing to kick off about this issue rather than any other, am I just showing the world I'm a bigot? As a few people have said, it's horrible having people say BIGOT BIGOT BIGOT to you, and it makes you question yourself.

What started me wanting to talk about it was...being told I couldn't. And now what's making me feel dreadful about doing so anyway is...being told I shouldn't.

I've been losing sleep. Worrying about losing friends. Worrying about my own safety and my child's. Worrying about what I've become, and whether I like it.

I really wish the debate was taking place in friendly and co-operative terms, because then we could find a work-around to deal with any potential issues, and nobody would have to be banned from anything they genuinely want to be part of. It's all such a bloody mess.

Sorry - head in a bit of a mess.

I think also that after Uni and/or a politically active youth (and only then if you are exposed to currently discussed theories) people get busy with their lives and don't follow closely ideology that is brewing. The whole "Cis" thing for example seems to be already being presented to us as a "done deal" if you don't accept it you are a bigot or phobic. People are often unaware of or confused by the ideology behind these terms and assume them to be benign or as others have said another manifestation of minority rights. Majorities of people are too busy with theories to be focused on this until it starts to get very disturbing.

Sorry - computer playing up :)

Theories = their lives

Misgendering is a human rights crime in New York City and the fine is up to $250,000

I did not know that

That attack on Rose McGowan, she kept saying "we're the same sister"
I kept thinking "don't do it girl, don't pretend, stop it"
Knowing she could be fined that much for referring to that attacker as "he" which I have a number of times... You see exactly who holds the power. Who has the right to opress who.

Link to Canadian law?

thanksjaneshusbandatcaresouth Bill C16;

openparliament.ca/bills/42-1/C-16/

Misgendering is a human rights crime in New York City and the fine is up to $250,000

In contrast, deliberately and knowingly infecting someone with HIV is a misdemeanor.

Thanks

“ enactment amends the Canadian Human Rights Act to add gender identity and gender expression to the list of prohibited grounds of discrimination.

The enactment also amends the Criminal Code to extend the protection against hate propaganda set out in that Act to any section of the public that is distinguished by gender identity or expression and to clearly set out that evidence that an offence was motivated by bias, prejudice or hate based on gender identity or expression constitutes an aggravating circumstance that a court must take into consideration when it imposes a sentence.”

Ok guess it depends what gate propaganda is...

I no longer talk to my teenage daughters about this because they are so absolutely shocked and horrified at me saying "transwomen are not women". My husband was a bit aghast too. he kind of got it when I had a post-coital bleed (post menopausal) and when crying at the fucking misery of it I told him exactly what my reproductive history had been and why a man will not appropriate my experience from me without a fight.

I am biding my time for the moment and waiting for them to get it. They often complain to me about having periods etc... they don't seem to make the connection though.