Why are more women not worried about impact of transactivism?

[Scrambledogg]

It is largely thanks to MN that I have been made aware of the gender identification bill and the potential impact of it.

I have been reading more and trying to be better informed.

In some of articles I have read I have noticed the category of 'woman' divided into women and ciswomen. I find it very unsettling that I would be defined as the latter, as opposed to just as a woman.

When I raise this issue with my friends, they are largely unconcerned.

Why are not more women worried right now?

need i go on?

Direct association with trans in the first post

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3128837-Normalising-paedophilia-and-sexualisation-of-children

I think the main problem is that people just haven’t thought the issues through.

If you’re generally a liberal, tolerant kind of person who tries not to be racist, homophobic etc, then you automatically assume that you don’t want to be transphobic either. But you maybe haven’t fully realised the impact on women.

I was talking to a friend recently about trans women in sport - not just professionals, but say a mixed secondary school in which the majority of the netball team ends up being physically male. She said “well, you’d just have to have a rule that there were at least 3 girls on the team”. I said “but that’s the whole point! The trans girls would be insisting they ARE girls so they’d be taking up one of the female slots!”

The point is she really hadn’t made that leap yet.

I don't see people making a connection between paedophilia and homosexuality there Debbie. An observation that abusers might hop on the trans bandwagon to facilitate their abuse, surely?

The LBGT word salad thing is an observation that the P does NOT belong in that context.

No one I know is talking about this irl -it’s not really reached the general population. I think it will take a couple of years to reach people generally, and then another couple of years for people to realise the implications. This may be sped up considerably if politicians continue to court individuals who are violent criminals, sex offenders and racists regarding trans and this is properly reported on, and if the issues in sport are raised in the sporting world - I don’t think the average sports fan would be comfortable watching adult male bodies in competitive women’s sports.

@MrsOvarall

Yep keep that denial going.

AngryAttackKittens
Yep! I'm the B and don't much appreciate the acronym turning into "assorted perverts grouped here".

They'll eventually try to add another P for pedophile, just wait.

They'll eventually try to add another P for pedophile, just wait

So the P isn’t covered by any of the other letters which seems to be the exact opposite of your ‘point’.

need i go on?

Direct association with trans in the first post

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3128837-Normalising-paedophilia-and-sexualisation-of-childrenn*

Did you even read this post, Debbie? The association between trans groups and paedophilia in that post is because a transactivist group was posting cartoon drawings of naked children!

Are we now not even allowed to point out when TA post inappropriate images of children (that set safeguarding alarm bells ringing) without being accused of bigotry? Denying and shutting down expressions of concern?

Sheesh. Behaviour like yours is a safeguarding nightmare.

Ummm... so enlighten me then, what is trans ideology?

It's funny how you're all concerned with sounding like a bunch of bigots, because TBF that's exactly what you sound like.

I don't know much about the trans community, I've only seen a few documentaries on it - various vids on Youtube by people who identify as trans etc, but it seems quite clear in my mind:

• They feel they were born in the wrong body
• They have felt that way since childhood (i.e. they were born that way - they didn't "choose" it - who in their right mind would choose something that would be so societally shunned anyway?)
• They want to live their life as the gender that they feel they are.

Let's say it's all a rouse. And these are very disturbed people looking for answers in life in the wrong areas (by the way, I don't believe this, but let's just SAY it's true).... with more research and developments in this area i.e. recognizing trans legally - society will eventually recognize this, and these people will get a different kind of psychological help. Meanwhile, it's hardly going to "ruin society" is it? I've heard the toilet argument (loads of people in the Bible belt in the US love to make it) - but as a woman I do not feel afraid that people who are actually heterosexual males are going to CHANGE THEIR GENDER just to sit in a cubicle next to a woman having a . Maybe there are one or two freaks who would - but having seen what most trans people go through in their life - I'd happily sacrifice this thought for THEIR ENTIRE LIFE BEING OK. I don't see how else it could be detrimental to non-trans people. Apart from pissing a few old-fashioned bigots off. They're hardly going to take over the planet, are they?

I'm not too sure what this TRA aggressive activism you're talking about is. Can you provide examples?

I don't think you can. This reminds me of what they aim at feminists when they say we're all radical man-hating activists that want to cleanse the world of men with our "ideology".

It seems quite clear to me that the only ideology that they have is to live the way they want to without stigma. The only way to change the way society stigmatizes people is to change society's attitudes. I don't see how that is radical.

If there is something I'm missing, then by all means enlighten me, but peoples' posts on here are high on the fear creating factor and very low on facts... like almost all bigotry.

Questioning the motivation for aggressively transing children is completely different to the old ignorant and bigoted attitude that LGBT people are perverts who'll do anything. Most people can see that surely?

Debbie, why do you think I'm wrong? Spell out your argument please as I don't see it.

AAKittens is bisexual. As I understand it, she is concerned about the appropriation of LGB. Is she wrong to be concerned? Why?

The pedophilia thing was a standard aimed at gay people since the beginning of homophobic time.

Oh look, they legalised gay marriage. Oh look, gay pedophilia didn't increase!

A lot of gay pedophilia happens in the most straightest of the straight heteronormative contexts of them all: THE CHURCH.

Person above alleges one trans group posted pedophilic pics.

Oh well, that settles it then. One trans group (which you give no sources for btw) posted a pic of naked kids, hence all trans people are peados.

Hi Debbie6666

Given that the trans ideology and the proposed change to the law is a paedophile's dream, how do you suggest people talk about that aspect?

People do NOT equate gender dysphoria with paedophilia.

Autogynephilia is a fetish. And many men who have it like to identify as very young. Middle-aged men calling themselves girls and dressing in a stereotypically 'girly' way.

Like Steph-on-knee, a middle-aged father of six who identifies as a child, and female, and plays with children, whilst enjoying anal sex with her 'father'.

Which would appear to be both AGP and paedophilia.

Furthermore pedophiles are attempting to make paedophilia into a 'sexual orientation'.

Which would give it protection under equality law.

Which, I agree, sounds crazy. But there's a lot of crazy around at the moment.

But you know, if you like pretend that people equate trans with paedophilia, and should therefore shut up about it, I'm afraid it won't work.

@Angelic89

Do you think women have penises?

Njordsgrrrl where is the evidence that they are "aggressively transing children"?

They are raising awareness of it and more kids are becoming aware.

That is completely different from forcing kids to transition, the prospect of which I find quite comical.

But if you have any evidence of this, feel free to supply.

but as a woman I do not feel afraid that people who are actually heterosexual males are going to CHANGE THEIR GENDER just to sit in a cubicle next to a woman having a **.

I admire your innocence.

It seems quite clear to me that the only ideology that they have is to live the way they want to without stigma. The only way to change the way society stigmatizes people is to change society's attitudes. I don't see how that is radical.

It is quite radical to insist that we all believe there are no physical differences between men and women. That we believe that penis's can be female. That people who have lived 30/40/50 years as men and have acted as men in fathering children are now biological women just on their say so. That's going to take some re-education.

There's concern around some aspects of the trans agenda

• Schools are being advised to withhold information from parents wrt trans identified children in contravention of established safeguarding practice

• trans identified children are being advised to approach individuals (with no official role, accountability, drb checks etc) privately online, without the knowledge of their parents, in contravention of the most basic internet safety practices

• arguments are being made which suggest that underage children are competent to make decisions about whether some very invasive things should happen to their bodies

We're worried that some of these suggestions might have the effect of facilitating or normalising paedophilic offending. Not that gay people are paedophiles.

I would say the school / safeguarding / social services and alienating children from their parents if not "supportive" idea is pretty worrying. Is that not part of the agenda? I'd be delighted if I was wrong about that to be honest!

Angelic89

I think you might be confusing transsexuals with today's version of many trans-women.

Transsexuals are who we have been sharing our toilets with for years. No problem.

But most transwomen, certainly the ones campaigning, (not transsexuals, who they call Truscum) are heterosexual men, 80% of whom keep their genitalia. And have, in old money, a cross dressing fetish (autogynephilia).

Which has given rise to male lesbians, the complete denial of homosexuality, the lady dick or female penis and the aggression.

Men with gender dysphoria (who you say are born in the wrong body), are not the problem here.

Unfortunately, they are few and far between. And are just as opposed to the amendments to self identification as women are.

*dbs

Angelic89

Online social contagion and the elevating of trans as a status is a real problem.

There are 2000 children a year showing up at gender clinics. 1900 of whom have nothing wrong with them. They are incredibly confused.

The term is ROGD which stands for rapid onset gender dysphoria.

Typically occurring at 14 or 15 years old, with no prior indication.

There is lot of information online. But here is a explanation of the four different types of gender dysphoria.

4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing/

Angelic, in case it's not completely clear: nobody here thinks that gay people are more likely to be paedophiles than straight people. Because that is probably untrue, as you correctly say.

There is concern WRT self ID and it's implications for women and children. Dysphoric transsexual people are not really a source of concern here. We don't want any old man to be able to self ID as female. Trans or not. Neither are dysphoric transsexual people the ones leading the rush to remove single sex spaces and protections without women's consent. Those spaces and protections might not be important to you. Or me in some circumstances. However we don't get to remove other women's boundaries without their consent.

I dont think there is one simple answer.

• many people still don't know there's an issue, or assume its not going to affect them, or have buried their heads in the sand and are hoping someone else will deal with it.
• If it was really that bad surely Someone Else/They would have already put a stop to it?
• Conditioning is effective, women want to be nice.
• Its easier to go with the flow than stick your head above the parapet.
• Admitting that many men really are indifferent to women, or actively despise us, is too much to deal with.
• Its easier to let someone else make all the decisions. The upside is you can blame them when it goes tits up.

I am out in the shires. The LGBT scene around here is almost nonexistent.

Shops still advertise for a ‘Saturday girl’!

I don’t think it is on people’s radar.

Can someone point me to the research that links AGP individuals with increased risk to women please? I keep seeing autogynephilia mentioned and obviously it's a fetish but I can't find where it's linked to crime etc.

I'm not too sure what this TRA aggressive activism you're talking about is. Can you provide examples?

Aggressive activism for me is transwomen demanding access to women only spaces because they feel like women, end-of.
I believe that women have a right to sex-segregated spaces. They have a right to undress, have medical services provided for them, play sport etc etc with other biological women only. They also have the right to say that transwomen are transwomen, not women. Because it is true.
Aggressive activism for me is also attempting to silence women's concerns by calling them bigots and transphobes. It is also aggressive to thump them (see Maria Miller at speaker's corner).

Ummm... so enlighten me then, what is trans ideology?
For me this is the thinking that permits all of the above, whilst closing down any debate with #nodebate.