Why are more women not worried about impact of transactivism?

[Scrambledogg]

It is largely thanks to MN that I have been made aware of the gender identification bill and the potential impact of it.

I have been reading more and trying to be better informed.

In some of articles I have read I have noticed the category of 'woman' divided into women and ciswomen. I find it very unsettling that I would be defined as the latter, as opposed to just as a woman.

When I raise this issue with my friends, they are largely unconcerned.

Why are not more women worried right now?

Saddest thing I saw last week was a picture of a pre transition Riley Dennis. He looked like a healthy, strong and wonderful young man.

My heart breaks for his mother.

Mermaids (child trans charity) blatantly grooms children, and uses such emotive language and skewed suicide statistics that, alongside the fear of being called a bigot, people daren't question them when they do presentations in schools.
When the founder is a person who took her young son to Thailand to be castrated, you have to question why they are allowed in to schools at all.

Then you look at the school pack created by gendertrend (?) which gives real statistics about desisting and sensible advice to help support young people safely without going down a route of life changing hormones and/or surgery. Except this is information that is being called hate filled and transphobic, and dangerous to young people who are born in the wrong body.

What should be happening is critical, deep research into why there is such a rise, and how the vast majority desist by adulthood, except currently it won't happen because TRAs have somehow risen to a position where so many people are scared of contradicting them.

salmonofwisdom, you have made incredibly offensive allegations about the gender critical users of Mumsnet. I assume you'll be posting either evidence to back up your claims or an apology?

salmon Until as recently as the beginning of last year I would have been firmly on your side. I read the trans threads and was appalled by the ‘right wing’ views and lack of tolerance.

And then I experienced all the trans issues brought up in this thread in real life. And I had my eyes opened to just how vulnerable young people are to manipulation on this issue.

Do you honestly believe that allowing people like Danielle Muscato into female only spaces is the right thing to do?

Do you honestly believe that teenager who are confused about their identity and sexuality should be encouraged to take life altering drugs and cut off healthy body parts?

Do you truly believe that women should be denied their right to single sex spaces?

Do you believe that women’s rights are less important than trans rights?

You state that you believe gender critical posters are wrong salmonofwisdom, but you've yet to back that up with any evidence at all. It's like arguing with a Roman Catholic.

They are entirely dependent bullying terrorist tactics. Complete lack of respectful reason.

I firmly believe that many of you are wrong, as you do me

Fair enough. So why do you think we're wrong?

Where can we find the information to persuade us that women's boundaries are not being trampled? That the medicalisation of GNC children is harmless? That not a single predatory non trans man will use self ID to abuse women? That transwomen are actual natal women?

Serious questions.

Also, which of these statements is true:

1. exposing your gentials to someone else without their prior consent is sexual harrassment.
2. Demanding that someone have sex with you, even though they don’t want to, is coercive rape.
3. taking spaces designed for people of a specific sexuality and demanding they admit you is morally objectionable use of privilege.
4. prentending that make bodies are female bodies with the same issues erases women’s biological needs and is medically dangerous to the men involved.

Good questions NannyOggs

It's like arguing with a Roman Catholic.

Eh?

specifically about transubstantiation geekaMaxima

GeekaMaxima

Reference to transubstantiation, I think. Or substitute any other sincerely held but non-objectively-provable religious belief.

And you are foolish if you think that a transperson (male or female) is stronger than yourself.

Foolish?

You don't think men are stronger than women?

Dang.

Pretty sure I'm not stronger than these TIMs...

salmon 'grooming' has a broader meaning than just the idea of paedophiles groming children for sex. You do understand that right? Becaise the only.person who has brought that up is you.

It's about people with a vested interest identifying and exploiting a vulnerable individual for their own ends.

It can be seen in any kind of ideological radicalisaton.

Perhaps more women are concerned but they also have many other more immediate things to worry about.

I think most women can’t get het up over words so the argument about pronouns and cis is turning them right off. Life’s too short, they’ll say.

However, point out how vulnerable children are at risk and you’ll get a completely different reaction. Tell them that Mermaids are going into schools and what they are promoting and the outrage from both mothers and fathers is certainly there.

As others have said, the majority of people think transgender = transsexual on hormones. They just don’t realise the ever widening trans umbrella include men with recognised paraphilia ie autogynephiles.
They believe that puberty blockers are reversible and the only alternative is driving your child to suicide
They haven’t heard of men competing in (and winning in) women’s sport
They don’t think about convicted sex offenders being placed in women’s prisons because ‘surely that wouldn’t be allowed’

They think it’s all a fuss about pronouns and toilets and in 10 years time we will wonder what the fuss was about

Salmon
Do you also subscribe to trans racial and trabsabled

salmon Until as recently as the beginning of last year I would have been firmly on your side. I read the trans threads and was appalled by the ‘right wing’ views and lack of tolerance.

Hear hear. I find it amazing I allowed myself to be convinced that innate gender identity exists. Years ago I was a practicing Christian and I would spend much time arguing with very conservative men who firmly believed that gender roles were innate and women were naturally predisposed to femininity and passivity. I would argue back using good old raf-fem talking points of socialisation etc.

Then I found myself trying to argue that transwomen are women because gender is innate, and women have feminine identities ....

I'm not a stranger to beliefs that have no grounding in science, I'm sympathetic to people who have them At the same time I don't think anyone should have the right to impose their beliefs on the rest of the population.

Imagine if you will an evangelical Christian who experiences a strong sense in God every time they pray. Because they have this internal strong sense of God, they now declare that it is bigoted and violent to state there is no God. Their experience of God is proof that God exists. You must accept not just their experiences but their explanation for that experience. You are not allowed to suggest alternative reasons for that experience, or point out that you can get a similar experience attending a concert with your favourite band. This is hatred towards them. Bonkers, yes?

You don't think men are stronger than women?

It's now transphobic to make this point.

Jesus wept.

Messed up the quote there, ''you don't think men are stronger than women'' was from Datun.

Quite

Everyone should have the right to say
"I do not believe in God".

Everyone should have the right to say
"I do not believe transwomen are women".

@ReluctantCamper
2) Please link to the Mumsnet comment that equates gay and trans people with paedophilia and online grooming. I will donate £50 to the charity of your choice if you can find one

Please make your £50 donation to Mermaids, Posted less than a fortnight ago and found easily despite the crappy search engine.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3173651-Article-on-the-funding-behind-transgender-lobbying-organisations?pg=1

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHol

Yes, this part has always puzzled me. I did think for a while that pushing for puberty blockers and such was a..paedophile thing. To create 'legal children' basically. But even that comes across very conspiracy theory

Its all really really odd. Its came from nowhere and is advancing at an alarming rate.

Followed up with

SweetGrapes
Yy to the "paedophile thing" thegoal . Gives me the creeps.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3154849-So-now-there-is-a-K-for-Kink-in-the-LGBTQIACHKP

Second post adding another P for Paedophile to LGBTQIACHKP+

Never happens....