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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Why are more women not worried about impact of transactivism?

165 replies

Scrambledogg · 04/03/2018 07:10

It is largely thanks to MN that I have been made aware of the gender identification bill and the potential impact of it.

I have been reading more and trying to be better informed.

In some of articles I have read I have noticed the category of 'woman' divided into women and ciswomen. I find it very unsettling that I would be defined as the latter, as opposed to just as a woman.

When I raise this issue with my friends, they are largely unconcerned.

Why are not more women worried right now?

OP posts:
salmonofwisdom · 04/03/2018 08:26

There are a lot of women thinking critically about this issue. They just aren't bigots...

I suppose you're right, it is a gay issue when people like yourselves equate gay and trans people with paedophilia and online grooming on a daily basis. Never mind all the heterosexual men and women involved in these practices. Instead, the best scapegoats are those weaker than yourselves.

UrsulaPandress · 04/03/2018 08:27

My 18 year old dd thinks I'm a bigot.

She can't see the problem. Although all the Trans she comes in to contact with are TIFs.

Allthecremeeggs · 04/03/2018 08:31

I get so frustrated by all the high profile women who purport to be feminists but are resolutely silent on this, the biggest threat to our rights in decades. Caitlin Moran. JK Rowling. Lena Dunham. Dawn O Porter. They’ll speak out on the safe stuff knowing everyone agrees with them. But this? Their silence is deafening.

InfiniteSheldon · 04/03/2018 08:35

I think the key is defining transwoman not defining woman, when I talk to friends they always end up defining transwomen as men who've lived as a woman, had hormones, surgeries etc and are horrified by self I'd when they realize the implications. The problem is transwoman is a huge umbrella term now covering a far greater range of natal born men than ever before.

Patodp · 04/03/2018 08:35

It's maddening how trans activists always deliberately shut down the debate by throwing insane accusations around.
No wonder people are so scared to speak out against them.

ReluctantCamper · 04/03/2018 08:38

@salmonofwisdom

  1. no man who identifies as a woman is weaker than me. They are men.

  2. Please link to the Mumsnet comment that equates gay and trans people with paedophilia and online grooming. I will donate £50 to the charity of your choice if you can find one

MrsOvarall · 04/03/2018 08:42

Salmon I think you're underestimating quite how many women here were on your side until recently. Firmly on your side. It is distressing to realise that we were so wrong. It would be far easier to ignore the issues and scream bigot. But that is impossible when the glasses are off.

The house of cards falls down when you apply the slightest critical thought to TA's claims. When you look into the science, statistics, research, medications for kids, proposed changes to the law, education in schools etc. It's all there and overwhelmingly does not support society's current trajectory towards self ID.

Unlike saying that gay people are paedophiles, which the evidence clearly does not support. And which nobody here would claim.

Xenophile · 04/03/2018 08:49

2) Please link to the Mumsnet comment that equates gay and trans people with paedophilia and online grooming. I will donate £50 to the charity of your choice if you can find one

Should be hundreds of them, given that Salmon has seen it on a daily basis.

Except there won't be, because it only happens in Salmon's head.

CanIBuffalo · 04/03/2018 08:55

Because they thing trans = people like either Miranda Yardley or caricatures like Lily Savage. They probably aren't even aware of the likes of Lily Maddigan or Dominic Whatsisface.

When I tried to discuss the issues with a particular couple, they dismissed the idea of men being allowed in changing rooms by saying it would never happen because of the outraging public decency act (or something similar). It's so far out of the picture for lots of people that they think it'll never happen.

grasspigeons · 04/03/2018 08:55

I'd also add to my list that a lot of people don't view women as a class of people oppressed by their biology (in Britain) and therefore don't see the need for 'sex' as a protected characteristic.

If you don't particularly see the need for a women's officer - then it wouldn't particularly bother you if the post was taken by a natal women, a trans women who had taken hormones and had surgery, or a trans women that has taken no hormones and had no surgery but feels like a woman.

ReluctantCamper · 04/03/2018 08:55

Well quite. I was going to offer £1,000,000 but I thought it would make it too obviously precisely how unlikely salmonofwisdom is to find any such post.

I wouldn't grossly insult a group of people without being pretty damn sure of my facts. I've got a lot of respect for people who stick around and debate rather than bitch plop and run.

So salmonofwisdom, I presume your position is well thought out and evidence based? Let's see it then......

salmonofwisdom · 04/03/2018 08:56

Online grooming of young people has already been bought up in this thread.

And you are foolish if you think that a transperson (male or female) is stronger than yourself. This is an idea of 'trans' life circulating on forums such as MN which have no bearing in reality.

ReluctantCamper · 04/03/2018 08:59

Yes Salmon, online grooming to become trans, not online grooming by paedophiles as you imply. Many very sensible people believe this is one of the roots of rapid onset gender dysphoria.

There is no implication here that trans = paedophile

Patodp · 04/03/2018 09:00

Grooming them into the ideology. Not grooming them for sex.

Salmon must be having thinking problems.

ALittleBitOfButter · 04/03/2018 09:00

I actually don't understand your point salmon come again?

MaisyPops · 04/03/2018 09:02

Online grooming of young people has already been bought up in this thread.
Because children who don't conform to gender stereotypes or might be struggling with their sexuality (e.g. a feminine gay boy / butch lesbian), can express how they are feeling and the TRA will essentially convince them that they aren't a gay boy who likes more feminine things, they are actually a heterosexual girl who is trans.

Riley Denis couldn't be a boy who likes dressing up and women because stereotypes say that's not attractive to women and stereotypes rule in TRA world. So Rilley pops a dress and eyeliner on and voila Riley is now a lesbian (even though Riley is a human male with a penis in a heterosexual relationshio with a girl).

ReluctantCamper · 04/03/2018 09:03

A man who identifies as a woman will certainly be physically stronger than me.

Therefore if they mean me no good I will be far less likely to be able to do anything about it.

As a man, while I'm sure as an individual they will be delightful, if we look at the statistics, they're far more likely to mean me harm than a woman, and that is how safeguarding works.

If you have children, what do you tell them to do if they get separated from you in the street? I tell mine to approach a 'mummy', because the likelihood is she will look after them.

Xenophile · 04/03/2018 09:03

ALittleBitOfButter, Salmon is being disingenuous.

Just like the PP Twitter that just typed out a load of bollocks about men having uteruses endlessly yesterday, Salmon is hoping that if they post utter fabrications often enough, they will convince people that they're true.

birdsdestiny · 04/03/2018 09:04

Don't be ridiculous. My 13 year old son can beat me in an arm wrestle. It's not an idea of trans life, it's an understanding of biology. Woman saying no will keep happening. I know it makes people very cross but women having boundaries always has.

grasspigeons · 04/03/2018 09:11

Actually I think this debate(?) shows something

one person has moved the discussion from 'why more women aren't worried about the impact' where lots of interesting points could have come up that might have helped get more people worried - to another thread with frustrated cis women saying 'but biology!'

I want to hear more about why the person above's daughter views her as a bigot, what are her beliefs?

salmonofwisdom · 04/03/2018 09:11

On the contrary I'm not being disingenuous at all. I firmly believe that many of you are wrong, as you do me.

Xenophile · 04/03/2018 09:14

I'm not suggesting that you're lying about your beliefs, Salmon, I am saying that you're lying about your accusations. And you are.

Njordsgrrrl · 04/03/2018 09:14

R.e paedophilia, it isn't mentioned much but have seen it on here before. It's a bit discomforting that a movement of grown men are so very keen to have a generation of people who have been given puberty blockers. They'll be overage but essentially children. Maybe I'm overthinking but it's... well it doesn't sit right really.

TerfsUp · 04/03/2018 09:15

The ones I know can generally be divided into two groups:

(1) they aren't aware of the issue and therefore don't understand the enormity (yes, I know what enormity means and chose that word deliberately) of the issue; and

(2) they are more concerned with being 'woke' and social justice warriors than they are of thinking through the implications of TRA.

Patodp · 04/03/2018 09:21

Do you believe it's possible to change sex, Salmon ?

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