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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Can Pro-lifers be feminists?

742 replies

DevilsAdvocate123 · 27/02/2018 03:34

I am personally pro-choice, but in my 60 years, I have encountered pro-life feminists. Many of which asked that many other feminists try to "revoke their feminist cards", since they are pro-life.

I've asked them if it were sexist to be pro-life, and they explained these points to me:

-They entirely believe in the equality of men and women
-The reasoning behind the pro-life stance has nothing to do with sex
-If men could bear children, their opinion of abortion would be the exact same, as the reasoning behind the pro-life stance has nothing to do with sex
-They want to save babies of all genders, as the reasoning behind the pro-life stance has nothing to do with sex

I'm a fairly reasonable person. I've had discussions with liberals that think socialism is evil, I've had discussions with gays that believe a private business can do business with whomever it chooses, and I've talked with gun rights advocates that staunchly believe in background checks. I like to hear people out. I get things.

In this instance, I believe I understand where the pro-life feminists are coming from when they say they are still feminists.

Should the feminist community embrace these people into the community and work together, or should these people be shunned from the feminist community and not welcome?

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 27/02/2018 09:09

“Whether you would terminate a pregnancy yourself is a different story but if your feminism doesn't support a woman's right to choose it is bullshit. Substitute 'forced birth' for 'pro life' and it all becomes clearer.“

I agree.

whitecandles · 27/02/2018 09:12

Bertrand Well those women did call themselves feminists. So that's why I am wary of putting too much stock in labels.

Yellowshadeofgreen · 27/02/2018 09:13

I believe you can be pro life and a feminist. They are exceptionally rare in my experience but they do exist. I am not pro life and I am a feminist so I am not speaking about me.

The principle of pro life is often based around the ideology that human life begins at conception (I do not share this view obviously) but I can understand that if you believe this then it is likely to override any of your other principles. Murder is considered to be the worst of human crimes so it stands to reason that you would believe if human life begins at conception that you would wish to see that right being vindicated above all others.

BigDeskBob · 27/02/2018 09:13

"Where do I get my card, by the way?"

I'm stuck in the house all day, I might dust down the craft box and get busy. Expect one in the post soon

BertrandRussell · 27/02/2018 09:14

Fair enough. Sad you walked out rather than staying and proving them wrong, though.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 27/02/2018 09:16

@BigDeskBob Grin can it have a feminist unicorn, pleeeeese?

whitecandles · 27/02/2018 09:16

bertrand I suffer from anxiety, so it wasn't really possible.

larrygrylls · 27/02/2018 09:16

'The fundamental question is “Do you think that women should have the final say in what happens to their own bodies, or should someone else? Yes or no” If you say no, then you can’t be a feminist.'

It just is not that simple.

Bodily autonomy, in the normal sense in which it is used, means a right from intervention, not a right to intervention on demand. Many women also believe that the foetus has competing rights to bodily autonomy, at least beyond a certain point. Of course it is absolutely dependent on the mother. But so are many vulnerable people dependent on others after they are born.

Abortion, in that sense, stands alone.

Most people see it as competing rights. I find it interesting that some 'feminists' would like to disenfranchise 99% of the people whose rights they claim to care about. It is a fact that only 1% of women would like to extend the current limit on abortion and many (maybe most) would like to reduce it. Most feminists would be happy with the current limit, it is only a small self-selecting group who see a right to abortion up until the moment of birth to be a woman's right.

20nil · 27/02/2018 09:17

No.

doesthislookoddtoyou · 27/02/2018 09:18

"But surely you can be pro-women's rights and pro-children's rights

Of course you can. But foetuses are not children and have no rights.

HotCrossBunFight · 27/02/2018 09:25

I'm pro-life. I believe a foetus is a human life from the point of conception and therefore only agree with termination in exceptional circumstances (rape, TFMR).
To me abortion isn't a matter of women's rights, it's about the life of of the the unborn child.
That doesn't mean I cannot be a feminist. I strongly believe women should have equality.

doesthislookoddtoyou · 27/02/2018 09:31

But they can't have equality when people like you want to force them to have unwanted children, can they?

UpstartCrow · 27/02/2018 09:31

I think there's a difference between making a personal choice and enforcing a decision on other people.

HotCrossBunFight · 27/02/2018 09:33

Of course they can.

doesthislookoddtoyou · 27/02/2018 09:33

How?

LineysHorseWithNoName · 27/02/2018 09:35

HotCross, I'm sure you believe that, but to me it's incoherent on all sorts of levels.

Leilaniiii · 27/02/2018 09:38

Just because you call it a 'foetus' does not mean it is not an infant child. It IS a child. By a few weeks gestation it has a heart, arms, legs, a beating heart and it feels pain. It looks like a child.

It's like men deciding to call women 'woetus' and then justifying killing us all as, we're not human, we're just woetus's.

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 27/02/2018 09:41

I think pro-life women can call themselves feminists, but I don’t have to agree with them. If they are engaged in ensuring women have access to contraception, support and the means to raise their children, then I am more sympathetic, because just as I believe every child should be a wanted child, every abortion should be a wanted abortion, with women able to make the decision free of coercion or fear of financial consequences.

I still maintain women must have the right to abortion when that is their wish. All the moral and financial support in the world makes no difference to a woman who is for whatever reason not willing to be pregnant and have a baby.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 27/02/2018 09:44

HotCrossBun you can't have equality without autonomy.

woman11017 · 27/02/2018 09:45

No

woman11017 · 27/02/2018 09:46

In answer to OP question. ^
Why you would ask?

Yellowshadeofgreen · 27/02/2018 09:48

If they are engaged in ensuring women have access to contraception, support and the means to raise their children, then I am more sympathetic

That is very true. Very often people who oppose abortion moralise about contraception and offer nothing but judgement on the mother once the baby is born. Clearly then you are not talking about feminism in any guise.

There are however a few who see pregnancy as having no parallel due to biological constraints and are opposed to it based on their view that taking human life at any point in its existence is equally as wrong.

We hear a lot from the right wing (pay for it yourself) moralising lot but there are others who do not view abortion that way.

Leilaniiii · 27/02/2018 09:48

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett And who else is entitled to this equality? Black people, disabled people, poor people? Basically everyone but not infant children?

Leilaniiii · 27/02/2018 09:50

Very often people who oppose abortion moralise about contraception and offer nothing but judgement on the mother once the baby is born.

Not everyone. It depends on why you are pro-life. If it's for religious reasons then I think this is correct a lot of the time. However, there are lots of people who are pro-life but are atheists, for instance. I am pro-life and atheist.

Valentinesfart · 27/02/2018 09:51

I don't think it's a feminist viewpoint as it doesn't tally with my view of feminism but I'm not the arbiter of feminism either.

Unlike being a woman, you can "identify" as a feminist.