Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I don’t like the term “peak trans”

398 replies

Amoregentlemanlikemanner · 20/02/2018 21:44

I mean I get it. But I think your term should be peak TRA.

“Peak- “ is, as I understand it, a reference to the term “ peak oil” with all the connotations of the amount of oil reducing down to nothing.

Which is not, I hope, the way anyone feels about trans people.

Just my take on things

OP posts:
LightofaSilveryMoon · 21/02/2018 01:35

Littebird, you seem to be misreading the mood and the background to this fightback among women.

There is no hate towards you. I think it would be good if you would stick around and carry on reading the Feminist Chat threads, to get a more general impression, and also factual information, regarding the current situation!

But we are very against the male abusers and MRAs who will use people like you as a human shield in order to have access to woman-only, single sex spaces, and exploit them for their own ends.

Seriously - I am a woman and I am currently feeling scared about my status as a woman and scared for my daughter, because there is a threatening atmosphere around Telling Everyone Real Facts, e.g. sex change is absolutely impossible, and a man is never a woman - but no-one is ever allowed to say that - because, funnily enough, male pride and entitlement.

thebewilderness · 21/02/2018 01:39

under the original act once a GR Cert is issued we are legally female for all purposes, and the same of people who went the opposite direction
That is why the GRA should be repealed.

Littebird · 21/02/2018 01:59

LightofaSilveryMoon , I didn't have any privilege , if you call the privilege of being beaten up at school or by my mother
I was born with one ovary which was removed when I was 3 removed without my consent

Unlike many the only thing I have openly campaigned for is FGM

as for thebewilderness , are you suggesting its ok for men to rape women like me with no redress , or after living a quiet life not hurting anyone, I should be made a second class citizen ?

the repeals we are fighting for is that people who obviously aren't it shouldn't be allowed to self identify ie people who have commited violent crimes again women and children , or someone doing it on a whim

I am old now only lived my entire life as a woman, are you suggesting I should wear a badge stating I was born XXXY , exactly like a few Hollywood actresses like me

panjandrumpyjamas · 21/02/2018 02:15

BUT littebird

the repeals we are fighting for is that people who obviously aren't it shouldn't be allowed to self identify ie people who have commited violent crimes again women and children , or someone doing it on a whim
This is why we are against self id too but What you are suggesting is transphobic by the standards of the trans community.

thebewilderness · 21/02/2018 02:18

as for thebewilderness , are you suggesting its ok for men to rape women like me with no redress , or after living a quiet life not hurting anyone, I should be made a second class citizen ?

Thanks for showing us who you are, Littlebird.
The GRA does not provide for prosecutions of rape so why would you assume that men would be free to rape without redress if the GRA were repealed? Is it your right to access women as human shields?
I am already a second class citizen, what with being a woman and all, so you are barking if you think that carries any water with me. You reek of male privilege.

BarrackerBarmer · 21/02/2018 02:22

littebird live how you like. But where women's rights to distinguish themselves as a sex conflict with your own to be classified as the same, there exists a conflict.

If you were a nurse, a woman might choose a biological woman to do her smear over you.
If you were a security guard, it might not be appropriate for you to pat down a female.

In sports it might not be fair for women to have to compete against you.

The circumstances where exclusive biological sex matters are finite. But they do need to be respected and provisions must be made that do not compromise women's rights in favour of your own.

There are several transwomen who agree with this approach. They are living their lives, but understand that there is a line between them and women that isn't to be crossed.

thebewilderness · 21/02/2018 02:25

FYI I am hearing my 72nd birthday so I have been at this women's rights fight long enough to recognize a specious argument when I hear one. You are claiming to be one of those who created this nightmare of a law that is being used to strip women of their rights. The more trans advocates who come here the more we realize the harm is intentional.

AngryAttackKittens · 21/02/2018 02:28

Well that escalated quickly.

From "the GRA should be repealed because it creates a legal fiction" to "are you saying it's OK for men to rape me??!" in one comment. Um, OK, that's definitely rational and speaks well of your ability to assess this situation clearly.

thebewilderness · 21/02/2018 02:30

Nearing, not hearing although maybe that too.

OlennasWimple · 21/02/2018 02:40

IIRC at one point the law in England and Wales and (separately) in Scotland defined rape as forcible penetration by a man of a woman. Surely the correct answer to this problem is (and I thought was?) to amend the law that defines rape as a criminal activity so that it includes men who forcibly penetrate other men? Not change how to define a woman

AngryAttackKittens · 21/02/2018 02:45

Well, you could choose the option that would benefit all male rape victims, or you could choose the option that creates all sorts of problems for women while only helping a tiny minority of male victims.

Option B it is!

Hmm
Littebird · 21/02/2018 02:48

Shakes head with disbelief , I have been seeing endocrinologists since I was born XXXY intersex

I had no privilages when I started living my life at 18 , I had to take the crappiest of jobs with the crappiest conditions like all the women I worked with 42 years ago, none of the women knew my birth defect, it was a requirement of the clinic I attended ,

I paid my way through Uni , had to work 10 times as hard as any men to achieve what I did again without anyone knowing ,
I have brought up two children successfully and only told them of my past in recent years

I dont understand why some people want to punish me or other intersex people , I have specifically never worked or put myself in any situation where anything could be levelled at me

I changed my name on here to post this , because all this hate is like being back at school being beaten up when I was 12/13 specifically as I was so small , I had a small;l female frame and body and didn't look the way my mother sent me to school

I will now leave mumsnet ,and carry on with my retirement ,
best wishes

AngryAttackKittens · 21/02/2018 02:50

Intersex and trans are not the same thing. I'm not sure what part of that is so hard to understand.

thebewilderness · 21/02/2018 03:03

I dont understand why some people want to punish me or other intersex people , I have specifically never worked or put myself in any situation where anything could be levelled at me
Then why are you making it all about you and you alone?

nooka · 21/02/2018 03:33

I think the GRA was aimed to address a number of very significant issues for a very small number of people. The problem is that it has had very unfortunate consequences that may well not have been anticipated. Some of the original problems have gone (for example same sex marriage legislation means that men can marry men without having to 'become' women). The definition of rape changed in 2003 and now the victim is referred to as 'another person' so again no need for a legal change of sex status. In addition psychiatric practice has significantly changed and is I suspect a great deal more sympathetic than in the past.

I agree that consideration should be given to repeal rather than reform.

wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool · 21/02/2018 06:46

I was an adult in the 90s and didn’t make the connection to Peak Oil. I think like many words and phrases Peak Trans has changed the meaning of Peak through useage. I understood it immediately as meaning “at the end of my tether with this nonsense”. The phrase doesn’t originate on mumsnet but probably on Reddit where I think we are on Peak Trans 6! Which means about 6000 people have commented. Well worth a look especially the early boards. Gender critical Reddit Peak Trans! It’s where I went first, before I heard about Spartacus. Might be where I heard about Spartacus actually

BigDeskBob · 21/02/2018 07:13

"The Original act was also written so it didnt take anything from anyone else"

But it has, it's taken the words women and female away from well, how do we describe ourselves?

LangCleg · 21/02/2018 08:14

Littebird - no offence, but you perfectly illustrate the problem even with many "nice trans". That you explicitly equate women fighting for their rights and protections with personal hatred of you indicates that you cannot perceive of us as full human beings with the right to fight for our own interests whether or not they coincide with yours. This fight is not about you and the fact that you perceive it is marks you out as a narcissist.

I am sorry for your hard life experiences but will point out that rape is defined by a penetrating penis - not the particular body part it penetrates. The police let you down badly.

AngryAttackKittens · 21/02/2018 08:21

Also women disagreeing with you on a forum on the internetz is not like being beaten up at 12 because you were "so small".

I'm 5ft2, mate, so imagine what size I was at 12. And then imagine the howls of laughter that would ensue if I attempted to win an argument by going "you can't disagree with me because I was little when I was 12 and people were mean to me because of it".

BiologyMatters · 21/02/2018 08:43

Isn't it strange how the meaning of language is so important when you're talking about peak trans but it's not at all important when you're talking about the definition of the word woman?

Original poster
Amoregentlemanlikemanner · 21/02/2018 08:45

"Assuming you haven't left, OP, I was simply letting you know that I hadn't heard of the oil connotation. I thought it might be helpful for you to know that many of us hadn't; just as it's helpful to me to have been alerted to your meaning. Now I will be aware that it might be thought of that way."

thanks.

OP posts:
Datun · 21/02/2018 08:49

Amoregentlemanlikemanner

Long rude posts don’t get read by me I’m afraid!

How do you know they're rude if you don't read them?

Original poster
Amoregentlemanlikemanner · 21/02/2018 08:58

Just to say I consider the following comments to be misogynist bullying:

This:

"It's clearly an age think.

Good luck with your future."

And this:

"That's nice dear."

The second one is straight out of the David Cameron songbook of how to silence women!

I guess every cause, no matter how worthwhile, attracts bullies on the sidelines after a while. But I while I have breath in my body I will object to being bullied in clearly misogynist terms on a feminist board. I know this will attract more nastiness but some young girl or woman may benefit from knowing that bullying other women is not ok and so I will continue to be a feminist and continue to speak and I will call bullying by its name when I see it.

to everyone else, passions ran high I guess but thanks for debating, I have learnt a lot.

OP posts:
Original poster
Amoregentlemanlikemanner · 21/02/2018 08:59

Datun, it began with a fake rhetorical question. I have to deal with enough of that crap at work. If I'm not being paid, I don't read stuff like that.

I've had a long-term policy of not reading posts that begin this way. I should have kept that policy to myself I guess!
lesson learnt.

OP posts:
BiologyMatters · 21/02/2018 09:13

Dont you see any misogyny in the trans movement then?