I don’t like the term “peak trans”

[Amoregentlemanlikemanner]

I mean I get it. But I think your term should be peak TRA.

“Peak- “ is, as I understand it, a reference to the term “ peak oil” with all the connotations of the amount of oil reducing down to nothing.

Which is not, I hope, the way anyone feels about trans people.

Just my take on things

If someone's fragile sense of self is causing them to hurt other people then those other people have every right to put themselves first and the avoid the person who's causing the harm. Put your own oxygen mask on first, always.

You are of course welcome to devote your life to helping people with personality disorders. I've had one close relationship with a person who had one, and once was enough.

Quentin- I agree there hasn’t been much long term research at all. People are trying to do their best with limited evidence but experienced clinical judgement and skills. But they are wanting to help - not to harm.

FarFrom. But the children and adolescents come away from this transitioned.
If someone goes for support and therapy because they are depressed the therapist doesn’t say to them ‘yes you really are as worthless as you say you are. From now on everyone has to treat you like crap and confirm how you feel because otherwise you will kill yourself’.

And if the young person goes to Mermaids they will not be told that they are possibly mentally ill and suffering from delusions. They will be given drugs that the long term effects of which are unknown.

I do see that for example true npd includes an extremely fragile and vulnerable sense of self.

Maybe so. And you'll notice, in the first post of mine to which you took exception, I pointed out that disorder does not equal malice. So, no, I am not saying

It sounds like you are trying to say that these are just nasty and bad people.

That people who pose risk to others may also be vulnerable and not malicious is a matter for their HCP professionals, not for wider society. It is not up to individual women to manage the risk they pose. That is the entire point.

But they are wanting to help - not to harm.
Thing is, medical transition leading to lifelong dependence on drugs, surgery and infertility is harmful. So it is shocking that we are taking a quite damaging treatment pathway without knowing if psychological support would work just as well.
For people who detransition this is extremely harmful.
We can't even research different methods as counselling etc. has been dubbed "conversion therapy".
It's a mess.

Quentin- it is a very difficult area where whatever is done could be wrong.

But it isn’t true that people aren’t offered therapy in these services because of fears of it being called ‘conversion therapy’. Some young people are offered long term and intensive (3 x sessions per week) psychotherapy. Nobody in these services wants to rush or to get things wrong. They want to help the young people to feel they can live their lives. Many young people seen in these services do not have any medical treatment.
And I agree it may turn out to be a mess. But people are doing their best to help very distressed young people.

Transitioning may be the best option for some young people to feel they can live.

Long-term studies suggest that suicide attempts increase, 10 years after transition.

John Hopkin University who pioneered SRS, stopped offering it, because the studies demonstrated that it did nothing to alleviate the depression and anxiety of the subjects.

They concluded that symptoms of gender dysphoria might be alleviated, but overall, the subject was no happier. Because of all the other comorbid issues.

And if you engage, for any length of time with men who have autogynephilia, you will see, very quickly, that the irrationality, self obsession and utter disregard for women, is paramount.

This isn't an opinion, it's not a secret.

And yes, there are loads of people with personality disorders that impact on their family and friends.

But they are not managing change government legislation that allows them to run wild with their condition, at the expense of women and children.

I'm sure they are.

I have no issue with practitioners, however we are supposed to practice evidence based medicine and the principle of "do no unnecessary harm".
Transgender medical treatment is not evidence based and is likely to be doing harm - because of lack of evidence we don't know whether or not that harm is necessary.

I think you are being disingenuous too. We know anything other than "gender affirmation" therapy had led to trouble for gender specialists in other countries (Kenneth Zucker). We know research into detransition is being blocked in this country (James Caspian).
We see on the media and medical guidance that puberty blockers are called reversible, to buy time when the reality is they are being used off label, they are known to have some serious side effects and 100% of children who use them won't desist. So they aren't buying time, they are step 1 on a transition pathway.

Anyway this is a bit of a derail so I won't post more

Then where is the research, FarFrom? The one halfway decent follow-up study we have shows that transitioning does not benefit people. Why is transitioning still being offered as the gold standard? Why aren't more questions being asked and more studies being done? Why aren't other treatment protocols even being considered?

The current treatment modalities are not effective. Yet anyone who suggests that we try a different approach is branded a bigot. This is not an environment conducive to good medicine.

Johns Hopkins was forced to re-offer SRS after political pressure.

Not because SRS was beneficial. Political pressure.

That's not how medical science is supposed to work.

Why aren't more questions being asked and more studies being done? Why aren't other treatment protocols even being considered?

Because when anyone tries TRAs throw a massive shitfit.

Hi it is the op just keeping up the Jane Austen quotes theme.

A quick “ good morning” esp to Datun and Terfinator _ have read your posts. Yes and shudder re terfinator’s point on paedophilia.

I have to work today so if I post again please tell me to fuck off and get back to work.

Anyone who thinks that most young people referred to GIDs are getting 3x therapy appointments per week on the NHS is living in a fantasy world. This is not happening. I like Tavi and Port actually, but anybody suggesting they have this level of resource to offer is not truthful.

And the average for adults on the NHS before Rx is 2x30 minute sessions.

Not the fault of the dysphoric people. But such is the disaster of under-resourcing in NHS mental health provision.

It's like they think we won't look up any of their claims and have no familiarity with the way the NHS actually works.

I'm sure there are some kind, caring people who really want to help at the Tavistock. That doesn't mean that they are helping in the long run, or even that they would be able to given the pressure they're under from TRAs.

From what I can work out, Tavi and Port are, by and large, doing a sterling job of supporting their patients and keeping the worst excesses of transactivism at bay. I personally don't think any minors should ever be given puberty blockers. But I'm not treating these young people. It's been reported that 800 minors have been prescribed blockers via Tavi and Port and the other clinic. Which doesn't suggest that they are handing them out like Smarties to the thousands of kids they see, even though my personal view is that one is too many.

But it's simply not true that dysphoric patients are receiving adequate mental health care before beginning transition. GPs are being bullied into bridging prescriptions for hormones for adults off the back of one or two half hour sessions with a therapist.

NOBODY is being well served by this.

I wonder what happens to the kids they turn away and won't agree to give "blockers" to.

I genuinely think they properly support many kids into either desistance or into body acceptance (which does not necessarily mean a "cis" identity).

The mother of a trans child on here says she was offered six appointments. And after that nothing.

She eventually had to save up and go privately.

She said that mermaids offered little to no support unless you were going down the medical route, as well.

I’m not being dishonest about intensive psychotherapy but I agree it is rare because it is very expensive. But there are examples of young people lucky enough to have access to a (usually trainee) child psychotherapist who are taken on intensively in their local Camhs supported by gids at the tavi.

I absolutely agree there should be more of this but this is something to take up with nhs commissioners. Or look up the ACP child psychotherapy treat them right campaign and offer support to get them in every Camhs team in the country so it’s not such a lottery.

So, from a feminist perspective, what is likely to get GNC children the politically neutral psychological support they need?

1. not mentioning the risks of transitioning children publically but writing individually to all the NHS commissioners as a concerned member of the public?
2. as a group, raising the issues publically, discussing and debating with the aim of creating an atmosphere that enables impartial research into the best treatment and puts political pressure on the government to properly fund mental health support?

I don't think we should be closing down debate and research into effective treatments because a political movement gets vocal about discussion.

The mother of a trans child on here says she was offered six appointments. And after that nothing.

Yes I remember that, she said that as soon as she turned down blockers, all help ended. Which is shocking. the dysphoria does not go away if you chose not to go down the medication route, so the child should still have had help.

I am sure she posted not long ago to say she is in huge debt problems now because of having to pay for the private therapy, BUT happily, her child had desisted now. If the blockers had been used, the child would not have desisted..according to stats.

FarFrom, what is the purpose of these blatant falsehoods. Yours isn't a different perspective, it is a different reality.

I appreciate Farfrom’s input and am learning from it.