I don’t like the term “peak trans”

[Amoregentlemanlikemanner]

I mean I get it. But I think your term should be peak TRA.

“Peak- “ is, as I understand it, a reference to the term “ peak oil” with all the connotations of the amount of oil reducing down to nothing.

Which is not, I hope, the way anyone feels about trans people.

Just my take on things

I’m a bit of a cat that walks alone perf but who knows? I would certainly say I can see the paths you have walked up.

I am most concerned about possible medicalisation of children as a substitute for meeting their needs. This is because I have lived experience of
-how rarely those needs are met.

• Also that well meaning campaigners and medical models can make things worse as often as they make things better
• also of how the attitudes of the medical community are partly driven by trends in society which are themselves driven by changes in technology

I feel deeply for parents.

Datun said Frankly, the very fact that the term peak trans infuriates transactivists makes it good enough for me.

Oh indeed, annoying the TRAs is fine, but giving the handmaidens reason to dismiss us, or turning off the people who have not decided, is surely not what we’re aiming for?

Your posts, however, are incredibly powerfully persuasive. I think what I’m saying is more of that, and less of what can be heard as cliquish jeering, would help persuade more people.

No pressure, obvs.

These people pose a significant risk to women. It's not really the trans identity that poses that risk, I don't think. It's the personality disorder behind it. It's a personality disorder shared by all male pattern offenders - the same one behind domestic abuse and the same one behind sex offending.

Yep. The personality disorder is front and center and is what makes TRAs so difficult to discuss anything with. They don't want a discussion, they want narcissistic supply and obedience.

AGP in itself does seem to remove any ability to empathize with women though, and I'm not sure if it's that it's interacting with and reinforcing the personality disorder or if it would more accurately be classified as being as much a personality disorder as a fetish in its advanced stages. Maybe men who're AGP but not personality disordered just fly under the radar because they're more able to keep their behavior within socially acceptable limits.

The problem is that the self-ID movement has allowed in non-dysphoric AGP men who are more likely to have this personality disorder than the rest of the male population. It has also attracted people with this type of disordered personality to identify as trans when otherwise, they would have sought other avenues to express it.

This too. When the trans trend finally fades the latter group will just move on to something new, and it'll be easy because they never transitioned medically in the first place.

‘Recently, I have been observing a trained social worker interact with trans people online, using their training to expose any disordered thinking. The aim, I think, has been to demonstrate to onlookers how unstable some trans people are.’

Social workers are not trained or qualified to ‘expose’ disordered thinking.

‘The problem is that the self-ID movement has allowed in non-dysphoric AGP men who are more likely to have this personality disorder than the rest of the male population. It has also attracted people with this type of disordered personality to identify as trans when otherwise, they would have sought other avenues to express it.’

Which personality disorder might that be?

I don’t disbelieve you -I can see that you and people are telling me straight what they really think now. But I can’t accept what you say.
Fortunately for both of us I do not care whether you accept what I say or not. Your OP was goady by MN standards which you have observed long enough to know. Making an exception for yourself simply confirms my initial impression of authoritarianism.

Which personality disorder might that be?

Narcissistic personality disorder. And it's not hard to expose disordered thinking.

Amoregentlemanlikemanner i really get you about the rape scenes. It infuriates me , it's unnecessary and is done mostly to titilate men. There are countless victims of rape, no thought at all is given to how women feel watching these scenes. Who are the sicko producers who come up with this stuff? It should be illegal.

They defend it by claiming they are portraying real life. Ok. Then let's start showing scenes of paedophilia. Imagine the outrage. Women in the shower scenes annoy me too.

The shower scenes never bear any resemblance to how women actually shower either, and always make me think of this.

(Very NSFW)

addictions.tumblr.com/post/143107051229/bathing-erotically-vs-regular-bathing-oglaf

Social workers are not trained or qualified to ‘expose’ disordered thinking.

They are trained to recognise dysfunction and risk posed to others. They are also trained to recognise whether this dysfunction and risk is based on malice or delusion/disorder. And they know which questions to ask to demonstrate such.

But I think you know that. You'd just rather people with this training don't apply it to transactivism.

‘Narcissistic personality disorder’ - this is an actual diagnosis and to diagnose takes training - it really does not equate with the general mn idea of narcissism. And if someone does get this diagnosis then they are not well - they are not bad and they need help and support. ‘Not hard to expose disordered thinking’- not sure what you mean? Not very advanced or coherent arguments is one thing but you sound like you are trying to stray in to diagnostic terms and then actually it is quite specific- and social workers are not trained to do this. And anyone who talks about exposing in regards to mental health diagnosis has no business working in this field (although likely doesn’t).

No Lang- social workers - like teachers are woefully undertrained in areas of mental health, development and diagnosis. They may be absolutely excellent and have experience in these areas but it is not in their training.

lol @ that comic Angrykittens

Does anyone follow Celeste barber on facebook? She jokingly recreates some professional sdverts. She's done some sexy shower ones that are hilarious.

‘
They are trained to recognise dysfunction and risk posed to others. They are also trained to recognise whether this dysfunction and risk is based on malice or delusion/disorder. And they know which questions to ask to demonstrate such. ’
They really are not. Many social workers are amazing and make such an enormous difference to the lives of children. But this is not their training.

Not hard to expose disordered thinking’- not sure what you mean? Not very advanced or coherent arguments is one thing but you sound like you are trying to stray in to diagnostic terms and then actually it is quite specific- and social workers are not trained to do this. And anyone who talks about exposing in regards to mental health diagnosis has no business working in this field (although likely doesn’t).

No I don't. At all.

Far your insistance that social workers are not trained to recognize dysfunction and riskis laughable. Are you trying to tell us that thousands of social workers are making decisions about people at risk without any training whatsoever?

You don't know what sort of social worker this person was. I'm assuming you're aware there's many types of social worker including mental health social workers, prison social workers and social workers who work with sex offenders.

I'm not sure what Far's goal is other than possibly to sealion the thread away from discussion of how dysfunctional a lot or TRA behavior is.

No Lang- social workers - like teachers are woefully undertrained in areas of mental health, development and diagnosis.
Psychiatric social workers are qualified to make these determinations.
I suspect you are suffering from galloping assumptions.

WiseUpJanetWeiss

I don't tend to deliberately wind people up, transactivists, or anyone.

I will engage with people over and over, explaining, adding links, etc.

It doesn't stop me being acutely aware of the realisation that if it infuriates a transactivist, it's working.

But I never deliberately do it for that reason.

@Amoregentlemanlikemanner

I guarantee you will peak, because you understand this issue already, without even knowing about it. Your feminism totally gets misogyny.

Take a look at the threads on mumsnet. The current threads are written by women who are peaking for the 10th time, so probably not the best ones, to learn about this from scratch. They might sound harsh to your ears.

Go back six months. Follow any links. It will take you on a journey.

Good to talk to you too. It's amazing what communication can achieve.

FarFrom

This may interest you, or not. On the narcissistic personality disorder topic..

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301205/

Study of transsexual people (so actual dysphoric people, not AGPs..who I would wager would score much higher)

The most frequent personality disorder was narcissistic personality disorder (57.1%)

Mededdu reported the presence of personality disorders in 52% of the surgery candidates and stated that narcissistic personality disorder was the commonest disorder.

All studies showed a high percentage of personality disorders.

Of course there are relatively small sample sizes, as there are not really many transsexual people about (I highly suspect that studies done on 'transactivists' or AGPs would be near 100% narcisistic tbh) but its quite interesting. To me anyway, maybe not to others. Just thought I would post it as the topic seems to hav turned to this.

Thanks for linking to those results, Goals. I'd seen them before but couldn't find the link when I went looking.

Please note that 50% is much higher than the rate of NPD in the general population.

Which personality disorder might that be?

Narcissism. It's prevalent amongst the trans community.

People identifying as trans often have comorbid mental health issues. The highest of which is narcissism.

Just google it. There is plenty of evidence and studies.

Narcissistic rage is another key characteristic. Again, just google it in relation to trans.

It's no surprise given the quite revolting and horribly creative threats that women receive if they call these men out.

Did you read the thread about the trans widows escape committee?

All the women on there have strikingly similar stories.

Even they, themselves were shocked. The utter selfishness and self obsession of these men is breathtaking.

Related. The person who wrote this is a transsexual, btw.

pfox.org/Shame-Rage.pdf

TL;DR

And thank Christ I still don’t even know what this thread is about.

If you need lots of new words to discuss things, then you aren’t discussing the really world.

Good Lord. Another person who disagrees with something they haven't read.