cis is an abusive term

[Horridemma]

I don't want to be called a 'cis' nor referred to as 'cis' in any sort of patronising way. Not sure if I really understand but from the way it is bandied about it does not sound good.

I am a woman not a 'cis'

I thought I was quite clear. To me, Woman, Female, Girl all refer to sex, not gender.

I am a woman.

You seem to be desperate to ignore my sex, and redefine 'woman' to be gender, and therefore say I'm 'non-binary' - even though gender isn't binary anyway, that's sex.

Your definition said it was someone female who doesn't think they are a woman - well, I do, I am a woman - an adult, human female. Therefore, I'm asking what definition of woman you are using, and actually, as an addendum, how you tell the difference between gender and sex if you want to use the same words for both.

SeniorRita - I am also a woman and one who doesn't care if someone calls me a cis-woman. OK, so you have a gender identity, and it aligns with your sex, so you are, by these definitions a cis-woman.

I am not. I am just a woman, like most women I know (who similarly don't have gender identities, and only know they are women because they are adult, human females). It's as incorrect to call them and me cis-women as it would be to call me a man - but more insulting, because I do not identify with the feminine gender and all the baggage that comes with it - I have that projected onto me, and don't need yet more people projecting 'cis' onto me.

If it's only the trans community that use the term cis, where is the offence coming from?

1. the trans community is making the offensive assumption that women identify with "gender" when gender is the social construct that oppresses them. I don't identify with my bloody gender. Gender was made up by men to benefit men. Even the ones in dresses.

2. the trans community is offensively insisting on labelling women in a way they do not wish to be labelled - but call it literal violence when women don't accept their self definition (as women). This is hypocrisy. Either we all get to self define or none of us do.

the trans community is offensively insisting on labelling women in a way they do not wish to be labelled - but call it literal violence when women don't accept their self definition (as women). This is hypocrisy. Either we all get to self define or none of us do.

To be honest I would prefer that they get to call me cis and i get to point out their sex.

I find cis rather offensive as the group forcing it on women are a group who reckon everyones gender identity should be respected. I have no gender identity, but I am still a woman. I expect many many women do not have a gender identity (mainly as gender is a load of bollocks) and especially feminists who can see the restrictive shit for what it is. I have only ever seen cis used in a sneery or purposely offensive way tbh. Also I very very rarely see 'cis' forced onto men. Its always ciswoman, meanwhile 'transwomen are women!'

A word like...trans-woman?

It's really not that simple. Because people have different understandings of what that means. It gives the impression to many that they are just as much women as actual women. Which is bullshit. Hence why they love "cis" so they can perpetuate this falsehood.

As my previous post says, non-binary is someone who doesn't have a gender or identify with a gender/believe in gender which is you!

In that case aren't most people 'non-binary' in the objective sense, since all gender is, is the expectation placed on hunan by society on how they should behave/appear? There is nothing 'innate' about it, you are either male or female and that is determined by chromosomes. That's it.

I know I am a woman because of my body.

There are some people who have gender dysphoria (although many people who cone under the trans umbrella don't have dysphoria, evidenced by the keeping of beards, penises etc). They want yo transition to have the body of someone of the opposite sex. But what is 'non binary'? You have to be one or the other, you can't just be nothing!

lucylouuu

stoneagefertilitydoll i'm not sure what this has to do with personality and I don't know what else to say to you. If you don't have a gender or identify with a gender then you are non-binary. As my previous post says, non-binary is someone who doesn't have a gender or identify with a gender/believe in gender which is you!

See, this is the problem right here. Insisting that people who do not share a belief system define themselves in regard to that belief system.

Gender is a social construct. It does not exist outside of society, and it varies -immensely - across different cultures and different time periods. It's fake, it's phony, there is no scientific basis to it. There is no objective material basis to it.

Biological sex - male and female, man and woman - is an objective physical reality that does not vary across different cultures or time periods. Biological sex exists.

"Non-binary" is fake, it doesn't exist, because it is predicated on the belief that gender exists.

I do not have a gender because gender isn't real. I am not non-binary because in order to be non-binary, gender would have to be real. It is not.

I am an adult human female. I am a woman because that is my biological sex, the physical reality of my body.

If you don't have a gender or identify with a gender then you are non-binary. As my previous post says, non-binary is someone who doesn't have a gender or identify with a gender/believe in gender which is you!
According to who?

Lucy, do you understand this.

I am an adult human female , otherwise known as a woman.
I have xx chromosomes and can bear young.

I reject gender and consider it a social construct.

Still a woman.
I do not need to have ‘cis’ appended to that description of ‘woman’ so you know I am not trans.

The word ‘woman’ already does that nicely.

See, this is the problem right here. Insisting that people who do not share a belief system define themselves in regard to that belief system.

Exactly. I don't have to accept being told I'm either Catholic or Protestant when I'm not a Christian at all.

And with the trans business, it's even worse. Because trans ideology is all about entrenching gender, which in my world view is the very thing that is oppressing me.

If words are literal violence, as all these idiots who can't see past the end of their own noses keep telling me they are, to me cis is like a punch in the gob.

Do. Not. Cis. Me.

End of.

Seniorrita

People have presented arguments as to why cis is offensive.
But you aren't acknowledging, engaging or giving a rebuttal.

Stating 'no it isn't' is pointless and childish.
Refusing to define your terms has left you in a position where you simply cannot engage with others, appear to ignore arguments, and simply want to appear on a thread to announce 'you're all wrong'.

Using a word for a group of people that implies something negative about them, is a slur.

If you disagree, tell us what YOU think characterises a slur.

Otherwise your contributions to a DEBATE are worthless. There's no content, no argument.

Cis is a slur. And if you don't agree that you are at the bottom of the gender hierarchy and stay there, you're not a real woman.

Got it?

" Non-binary is often used to self-identify by people who challenge social constructions of gender "

If you disagree, tell us what YOU think characterises a slur. - I did that you didn't agree with it. Fine.
I accepted it could be used as a slur but said it is not always and gave an example of when it is not.

Otherwise your contributions to a DEBATE are worthless. - the opening post (to which I was responding) did not seem to be a DEBATE, the OP TOLD US her view, no debate was asked for, but the rest of us are not allowed to tell our view (unless we agree), we have to justify it and DEBATE.

I don’t need to identify as anything because using non-binary implies a belief in binary.

I am a woman, it is a biological things.
Has no bearing on what my personality is, how I dress, what my interests are.

Why is there a word other than woman needed to describe me?

SeniorRita

You don't mind being called a cis woman. You identify with your gender. Your gender is not an innate feeling that you're a woman, that's your biological body. Your gender is a set of expectations that society imposes on you. Women are decorative, sex providers and have a lady brain. Which prevents them being paid the same as men, and has, historically meant they can't vote, hold public office, or be educated.

Women are disadvantaged because of their biology, and gender is the means by which it is done.

Why were the 117 million girl babies in China aborted? How are they identified? How are 85,000 women a year raped? How are they identified?

By their biology, not whether or not they are subscribing to a gender. Gender in the means, not the cause.

If you want to identify with that, that's up to you.

But just be aware, you suddenly have no choice. According to Lily Madigan, the women's officer of the Labour Party CLP, you have no choice.

You're not actually a woman, unless you subscribe to the gender cis, or trans-.

You're not a woman unless you're a man, or a woman who is agrees with her own oppression.

"Non-binary is often used to self-identify by people who challenge social constructions of gender"

OK - so if I'm to be in the non-binary, and yet also a woman box, what are the binaries that I'm not?

I accepted it could be used as a slur but said it is not always and gave an example of when it is not.

Is your example this:
It is not a slur when it is not used as a slur, for example, in the title of this thread.?

In which case I'm not sure who, how or when it could be used about another person and NOT be a slur.

You've not so much given an example, as demonstrated that words can be neutral, until you apply them to a person, at which point they become a slur.

Dick.
There's a neutral word.

If I said 'you are a dick' that becomes an insult.

Cis.
Neutral until you apply it to a person.
Insulting when you do.

barrackerbarmer
i am a cis woman, my partner is a cis man, is that a slur? no it's factual

i am a cis woman, my partner is a cis man, is that a slur? no it's factual

Can you give an example of what makes you cis, but me non-binary? Are you 100% feminine then? Is that what makes you cis?

barrackerbarmer
i am a cis woman, my partner is a cis man, is that a slur? no it's factual

It's factual, if you identify as someone who should be paid less, be aborted before you were born, if you live in China, happy to support FGM, provide sex on demand and do all the housework.

If your husband is happy to be considered more rational than you, more logical than you, better equipped for public office and can manage money better than you.

You see gender as an innate essence that tells you whether or not you are male or female. There is absolutely zero argument to support that.

Gender is a means of creating a hierarchy with men at the top and women at the bottom. It is society's expectations of your behaviour.

Rigourously enforced.

Even Pro trans websites define gender as a set of expectations imposed by society. On a spectrum of masculine to feminine and deciding what behaviours are masculine, and what are feminine. You won't find a single scientific, biological, sociological, or activist website that defines it as anything different.

Are you 100% feminine then? Is that what makes you cis?

Whilst you're at it, can you list all the behaviours that come under the term feminine?

Lucy why are you ignoring my posts? Because you don’t have a good answer?

Why do I need any other words to describe me, than woman?