cis is an abusive term

[Horridemma]

I don't want to be called a 'cis' nor referred to as 'cis' in any sort of patronising way. Not sure if I really understand but from the way it is bandied about it does not sound good.

I am a woman not a 'cis'

I don't have a gender - why can't I be a women?

Seriously
Lucylouu

If ciswoman could equally be substituted for 'biological female' and transwoman for 'biological man' then let's have a bit of honesty and integrity and use those words truthfully and properly.

If you want to have a crack at defining woman go for it. You won't be able to come up with a definition that covers both biological females and males without having to accept that most biological females are no longer women under your definition.

Woman means adult human female
Man means adult human male
'Transwomen' are adult human males

There is no such thing as a
male adult human female

It just means someone who isn't trans.*

People don't want to be defined by what they are not. I am a woman, I'm not 'not a man who identifies as a woman' which is what cis means.

A cis woman as opposed to a trans woman.

What's wrong with a woman as opposed to a trans woman.

A 'non-binary' person is still a male or female. They just are!

stoneagefertilitydoll

I don't believe they are any less of a female but they are still non-binary. They may have been born with a vagina but if they do not accept a gender or that they are a woman or a man then by definition they are " non-binary".

www.tht.org.uk/sexual-health/Sex,-reproduction-and-gender/Trans-men/Nonbinary

They may have been born with a vagina

But vagina = woman

It would be much simpler if adult human males who didn't want to use the word man to describe themselves came up with a another word to describe themselves, and leave the word women for the adult human females.

When did people start claiming 'women' means gender?

thisusernamethingistricky

A cis woman as opposed to a trans woman.

What's wrong with a woman as opposed to a trans woman.

I can completely see where you're coming from, it could be like all women being just referred to as " not-men " the same way cis could be seen as referring to everyone else as " not-trans ".
Since reading the thread I can see a few people's points and i'm not saying people can't be offended by certain words.

However I believe it's mainly a word used by trans people in the trans community to talk about people who aren't trans the same way we talk about trans women as " trans women " and not women. Personally for me it's just a term used in a community and I don't find it offensive but that's not to say other people can't find it offensive and like I said, I can understand more now why they do.

sorry didn't mean to copy and paste those first two lines from you!

So younger only allowed to call yourself a woman if you act in "womanly" ways.

Which century have we been transported to?

You are for younger !

stoneagefertilitydoll - thank you for re-explaining my point, not that I think it needed it.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace - someone up thread said something it abusive if someone thinks it is. Surely therefore the opposite is also true? For example, my work colleague routinely calls his other colleague a cunt, neither of them find this abusive therefore it is not. Most people however would find it abusive to be called a cunt, and then it would be.

It is not a slur when it is not used as a slur, for example, in the title of this thread.

BarrackerBarmer - I actually don't think your example stands up because TERF is not a 'word', it is an acronym based on a perception of a group of people, or of some people's beliefs. Cis is an actual word.

lucylouuu - do read the thread, I doubt it will help, it's not made any sense to me as every argument against the word is different, so there just doesn't seem to be one cohesive reason we're not supposed to like it (or, worse, find it offensive), so to me, it seems more like people say it is offensive as a reaction to the arguments beneath it and to being labelled a 'TERF' (if they have been). But, personelly I don't see life in this black and white way.

I don't believe they are any less of a female but they are still non-binary. They may have been born with a vagina but if they do not accept a gender or that they are a woman or a man then by definition they are " non-binary".

OK, to be clear, we are talking about me.

I am female, I am a woman because I am an adult, human female, and I fully accept that, but I do not experience gender.

I am not non-binary sex - I have children, I know that sex is a binary, and I am of the female sex.

I am not non-binary gender, because I do not have an innate gender, just a sex and a personality.

When you say non-binary, you seem to be conflating sex and gender again.

Senior fine then - gender-critical feminists can say 'alright, terf?' to each other (if they want to), but just as your colleagues don't come in and call you cunt and then claim it's just simply a word that refers to the fact that you have a vagina so what could be offensive about it, we acknowledge that it is still an offensive term, designed to offend, in any case except where two people have decided it's part of their own repartee.

Seniorita

Why don't you provide your own definitions of words so that we can have the faintest clue what our mutual understanding should be.

Woman
Man
Male
Female
Sex
Gender
Gender identity
Slur
Cis
Trans

Most of us on this thread can provide excellent, non circular definitions to these, which is helpful when communicating.

It's impossible to debate with someone who claims words don't mean what they've always meant, but can't or won't provide a better, clearer meaning.

For example, 'ciswoman means not-transwoman' is a nonsense explanation if woman means adult human female.

And if woman means something else, what?

Your objective should be to make communication easier, not obscure all meaning entirely.

Lucylou 13.18
"However I believe it's mainly a word used by trans people in the trans community to talk about people who aren't trans the same way we talk about trans women as " trans women " and not women"

I don't think this is altogether true anymore, it is not just a 'community word' in that only last night during a television interview I heard the actor Georgie Henley, talking about her new play 'Angry', refer to 'cis-gender' as a class of people.

In some ways the context made this more likely because the only two parts are alternately played by her and a man from one night to the next, but even so it came across as common parlance. (Neither part in the play is trans-gender.)

If a word has unwarranted negative connotations and/or is intended to marginalise the person it is being used to label, is rejected by the recipient and is in fact an untruth, I think it ticks all the boxes to qualify as a slur.

Can we just keep saying this?

stoneagefertilitydoll

" I am not non-binary gender, because I do not have an innate gender "

Non-binary: genderless or lacking** gender or gender neutral, this may be meant in the sense of being neither man or woman yet still having gender or being neutrally gendered.

Non-binary: genderless or lacking** gender or gender neutral, this may be meant in the sense of being neither man or woman yet still having gender or being neutrally gendered.

I AM A WOMAN - I am an adult, human female, that makes me a woman, I am fine with being called a woman.

I don't believe in gender at all, yet alone a gender binary so I'm not non-binary - I just have a personality.

What is your definition of a woman if it's not related to sex, and I am therefore 'non-binary' despite having XX chromosomes etc?

It's never gonna catch on in day to day life though, I've only seen trans people refer to us that way.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace - sorry, don't understand your point.

BarrackerBarmer

Why don't you provide your own definitions of words - no, the person who started the thread claiming a word is abusive needs to explain why. People are allowed to disagree. I don't think it's up to me to tell you what is offensive.
The OP has tried to tell me a word is an abusive term. I don't buy it.

It's impossible to debate with someone who claims words don't mean what they've always meant - who did that then?

Your objective should be to make communication easier, not obscure all meaning entirely. - maybe yours should be to be less patronising?

stoneagefertilitydoll - I am also a woman and one who doesn't care if someone calls me a cis-woman.

stoneagefertilitydoll i'm not sure what this has to do with personality and I don't know what else to say to you. If you don't have a gender or identify with a gender then you are non-binary. As my previous post says, non-binary is someone who doesn't have a gender or identify with a gender/believe in gender which is you!

I agree denperry i've never heard it in day to day life and think it's something just used within a community and it doesn't bother me