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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

cis is an abusive term

425 replies

Horridemma · 14/02/2018 13:21

I don't want to be called a 'cis' nor referred to as 'cis' in any sort of patronising way. Not sure if I really understand but from the way it is bandied about it does not sound good.

I am a woman not a 'cis'

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9
Htram · 15/02/2018 14:24

I am not a cis woman. I do not identify with the gender roles that seek to oppress me and other women and girls. It's a load of old bollocks. Literally.

PositivelyPERF · 15/02/2018 14:48

Owllady that’s an absolute disgrace. You’ve actually been suspended for refusing to be insulted. Did the wanker who called you a TERF get suspended? I suspect not. Yet I daily see crap on my feed with tortured animals and dead people. It stays up.

PositivelyPERF · 15/02/2018 14:49

Do they tell you why you’ve been suspended and how long have you been suspended for? Can you appeal?

PipGirl404 · 15/02/2018 14:56

Facebook is a nightmare sometimes, I feel like there's too much pressure on companies and social media to be seen as 'inclusive' and 'PG', when in reality all they're really doing is completely squashing & disregarding womens rights...

How do people not see the issue with letting men in spaces for vulnerable women? I think this is what is annoying me and getting to me the most... I saw a comment on another thread of a woman saying she needed care for her disability and she was genuinely worried that anyone could just walk through the door... It's actually really sad?! People shouldn't be forced to receive intimate care from a member of the opposite sex if they're not comfortable with it, regardless of what they identify as... Saying "I'm a woman" doesn't give you the impartiality of having to wipe someones vagina, or for whatever reason clean them/care for parts of their body they do not have?! That has got to be a massive issue how is it not being treated like one?!

BlooperReel · 15/02/2018 15:02

Lush cosmetics have jumped on the 'cisgender' bullshit bandwagon on instagram, very disappointed.

PositivelyPERF · 15/02/2018 15:10

I can’t find that BlooperReel. Would you mind doing a link? Thank you.

theaveragewife · 15/02/2018 15:11

Noooooooooo.....not Lush!!! Sad

BlooperReel · 15/02/2018 15:18

PositivelyPerf

www.instagram.com/p/BfODqTkgGpO/?hl=en&taken-by=lushcosmetics

BlooperReel · 15/02/2018 15:19

I have actually got someone trying to tell me cis is a scientific term....wtf

Elendon · 15/02/2018 15:52

cis is a scientific term that has nothing whatsoever to do with gender or human biology. Using cis in human biology is like using chimpanzee studies in the study of toddler behaviour.

BlooperReel · 15/02/2018 16:20

Elendon yes but they have hijacked it's scietific use and are trying to say its been used to refer to gender since the 1300's.... pretty sure this cis wave in terms of gender started late 90's/early 2000's.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 15/02/2018 16:32

Bloody hell, from Lush "discuss how cisgender people can be good allies"
I cant even begin Angry

Elendon · 15/02/2018 16:36

I think it started later than that BlooperReel.

This is actually what peeves me most about the transgender movement. They have had more action to acquire their status in life over a decade than women have had over centuries. It does say a lot that men can achieve what they want over women, when they put their collective hive minds to it.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 15/02/2018 16:50

The first document ed use of the word cis in relation to gender was in the late 90's, in germany i think

It became more common in academic papers in 2007+

Ive only seen it in general use in the last few years on here and mainstream in the last year or so

BahHumbygge · 15/02/2018 16:51

FFS, cis is a scientific term... when it's applied to science

Human biology and cultural delusions cannot form an isomeric relationship with each other.

Amoregentlemanlikemanner · 15/02/2018 17:01

What is the science meaning out of interest?

BahHumbygge · 15/02/2018 17:32

Cis and trans mean on this side of and on the other side of, respectively.

So, in organic chemistry, you can have different isomeric versions of the same molecule... that is the layout of the molecule can have differing configurations. Imagine those 3D stick things from chemistry lessons... if you place the red atoms in opposite corners, that's a trans molecule; if you place them on the same side, that's a cis molecule.

It can also apply to other spatial arrangements of things eg cisalpine/ transalpine. Cisalpine refers to on this side of the alps, from the perspective of Italy... so on the Italian side of the alps.

However, it is a fabrication that you can describe a spatial relationship between an empirical phenomenon (biological sex) and sociological invention (cultural gender).

CisMyArse · 15/02/2018 17:42

Not much puts me up nor down.

Bully for you. You're a classic bury-my-head Brit -
If it doesn't change your lifestyle then you ignore it.

How about you 'meh' somewhere else along with the other clueless sheep and you can all pat yourselves on the back for being hip, cool and down with the kidz.

Amoregentlemanlikemanner · 15/02/2018 17:52

Wow! BahHumbygge

I never knew that!

That is absolutely fascinating, thanks!

PositivelyPERF · 15/02/2018 17:59

BahHumbygge that’s the clearest explanation of cis and trans I’ve ever read. Thank you so much. I’ve read loads of explanations on here but couldn’t quite grasp it well enough to explain it to others. I hope you don’t mind, but I will be saving that to my notes, so I can read it again and again until I can use it as an explanation, when my boys 🙄 try and argue that cis is a ‘proper’ definition of woman/man. Thank you.

Thisusernamethingistricky · 15/02/2018 18:03

I find the language around the trans issue quite interesting. Not the out and out 'kill all TERFs stuff' but from the more moderate 'legitimate' camps.

I have seen a lot of 'how you can be a good ally', the pushing of 'cis' onto people who don't wish to label themselves that way, whilst at the same time saying that misgendering is 'hate speech', a lot of 'do better, be better', the use of TERF from people like Owen Jones, when he knows it is frequently used as a misogynistic insult. I don't remember all of this sort of rhetoric in the gay rights movement. It's incredibly passive aggressive and kind of sinister.

PositivelyPERF · 15/02/2018 18:04

There’s rather too many ‘explanations’ in that. 😬

DreamyMcDreamy · 15/02/2018 19:34

I got called a terf and my comments suspended on a Facebook group for saying I wasn't cis anything, I was just a woman.

Shock Angry

That is awful, how the hell can they suspend comments and callyou namesjust because you refuse to be labelled?! They can label themselves all they like,but they can't just decide to label others to fit their own ideals!

BahHumbygge · 15/02/2018 19:57

Thinking about this further and what the organic chemistry analogy means for women is really offensive and essentialist from a radical feminist analysis, and paradoxical.

If you imagine the pair of functional groups arranged around a double carbon bond in a molecule being in either a cis or a trans configuration (see attachment), the pairing relationship must be of the same things (so say either ethyl groups, or methyl groups or hydrogen atoms or green blobs if you're not a chemist).

So what the transactivists are saying with regards to sex and gender is that femaleness (the state of being of the class that has large immotile gametes & can gestate, ie hardware) is exactly the same as femininity (the set of traits, socialisation and cultural stereotypes that have come to be associated with the female sex, ie software).

Not only is this essentialist bullshit, what feminists have been fighting for decades to overcome... that girls and women must like pretty sparkly things, be sweet and deferential and be socialised into the caring and subservient role in society, it is non-sensical. Transwomen are at the same time claiming that femaleness and femininity are exactly the same thing by applying the cis-trans model to sex & gender, yet contradicting themselves by being biologically male and claiming femininity. Femininity cannot be both inextricable from femaleness AND possible to transgender into from a male bodied person. Transgenderism is an impossible chimera. You need an empirical thing on which to hang the concept of gender. Once you attempt to cross genders, you invalidate the very claims you were making in the first place.

Female =/= femininity. Therefore there cannot be any ciswomen and there cannot be any transwomen.

Transwoman is an oxymoron. Ciswoman is an oxymoron. The only way to be a woman is through biology.

(image source: www.chemguide.co.uk/basicorg/isomerism/geometric.html)

cis is an abusive term
BeUpStanding · 15/02/2018 20:20

CisMyArse I'm guessing you haven't rtft? You really should - it's rather brilliant. "You'll never guess what happens next!!"

Bah Awesome explanations. Ten points to you.

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