Should the T be in LGBT?

[PikesPeaked]

Not sure where I should post this, but Feminist Chat seems to be the main area where trans issues are discussed, and where there are L and T posters contributing.

Should T be included in LGB, given that T tries to erase L and G?

Should T be included in LGB, given that L, G and B (and all the other sexualities) are about how people relate to other people, whereas T is about how people relate to themselves?

I have long wondered what transexual people have in common with homosexual or bisexual people, even well before I reached peak trans.

Well aside from the fact that a lot of transgender people are also Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual there are commonalities in the prejudice that they face.
If you mean the heterosexual males who identify as women who insist that they are being discriminated against by Lesbians who refuse to give them a blow job I suggest you eff right the eff off.

I think it's important to draw a distinction between transsexuals and the new mix of transgender / AGP / MRA TRAs. Transsexuals have on the whole just been quietly getting on with it and will suffer in any backlash more than anyone else.

Not competition in the literal sense. I mean these groups would have to coexist alongside their pre-existing LGBT counterparts and when it comes to advocacy, reputation and expertise are important. Realistically,there can't be a split because LGBT+ is just an acronym. No one owns it, no one can just decide one day that the T is not allowed to be represented anymore. Seems to me that if you want to separate yourself from the the wider LGBT community, you would have to take the initiative yourself and start your own group.

If you mean the heterosexual males who identify as women who insist that they are being discriminated against by Lesbians who refuse to give them a blow job I suggest you eff right the eff off.

Are you saying that trans people cant be LGB? I thought it was Mumsnet praxis that all genuine trans people were either lesbians or gay.

When gay men in positions of influence (politics/media etc) start to peak trans then this might be more openly talked about.

I read an article by a gay journalist who was increasingly worried about gender non conforming boys being told they "must be girls" because he knows full well they would grow up to be happy gay men with the right support.
He was sad about the homophobia and gay erasure promoted by the T.

Transgender activism closed down Mitchfest the women's festival.

Lesbians are angry.

That would depend on how you define "trans people", wandersail.
I though what I said was clear enough; quite specific really, but no I am not saying what you are saying I am saying.
I have no idea what mumsnet praxis is.

Are you saying that trans people cant be LGB? I thought it was Mumsnet praxis that all genuine trans people were either lesbians or gay.

No. The "Mumsnet praxis" is that lesbian and gay teenagers are being unduly influenced to identify as trans as a result of same sex attraction or gender nonconformity. The point is that most of them definitely aren't trans at all.

Yeah, there are loads of right wing or "liberal" gay men who are transphobic. Look at Milo for example. Doesn't really matter though, a good one to look at is that petition to "drop the T" a couple of years ago. They directed it at Stonewall, Huffpost Gay, and HRC. All of them rejected it but even if one of them said "yeah ok, lets exclude the trans." It wouldn't really matter. People would just call them trash, the news cycle would move on and most people wouldn't give a shit.

Well YippeeKiYay. For me I would just listen to the person telling me they were gay and not enquire as to whether they had a penis or not.

That sounds flippant but I think there is a point there in that who are we to police the ins and outs of peoples sexuality like the home office do.

Transphobic is bandied about so much of don't think you or anyone actually knows it's real meaning anymore.

So it's transphobic to be concerned about gay erasure... I getchya. Transphobic to have any discussion whatsoever... yawn

How male-privileged of you to motivate care if the person hitting on you has a Penis or not!

Until everyone wakes up maybe. It's not that the majority agree with the trans ideology, it's that most are still unaware of the wider ramifications. This will come in time as the discussion widens and people realise you can talk about these things. With honest conversation comes understanding. This no debate bollocks won't continue to wash forever.

*motivate? Not

I am gay. I certainly care if someone has a penis. I don't do cock. That's the point.

Transphobic to have any discussion whatsoever... yawn

This is what I don't get. You are literally having these discussions constantly here and in national newspapers. I honestly don't understand what you want.

For me I would just listen to the person telling me they were gay and not enquire as to whether they had a penis or not. If you were never taught any better than to believe whatever men tell you I suggest that you are either a male or a liar.

Possibly both.

I am gay. I certainly care if someone has a penis. I don't do cock. That's the point.

No one is forcing you to sleep with pre op trans women, or post op trans women. It is entirely ok for you not to be into trans women.