Should the T be in LGBT?

[PikesPeaked]

Not sure where I should post this, but Feminist Chat seems to be the main area where trans issues are discussed, and where there are L and T posters contributing.

Should T be included in LGB, given that T tries to erase L and G?

Should T be included in LGB, given that L, G and B (and all the other sexualities) are about how people relate to other people, whereas T is about how people relate to themselves?

Can I self define as gay then?

How else would you? Do you want a certificate from the government?

Well this is the whole point of people being able to self identify... If I go to a lesbian social event I would expect all woman there to have vaginas. If you can self identify and gain entry to woman only places the alternative is that I might end up going home with someone and discovering then, on a 1 to 1 situation where no one else is about, that they have in fact a penis. And then be put in a situation of having to risk offending/aggravating a stranger who I have no clue how they might react. Can you really not see how that is unfair/be potentially dangerous?

Well YippeeKiYay. For me I would just listen to the person telling me they were gay and not enquire as to whether they had a penis or not

Course you would

Ridiculous

But this hypothetical situation is such a bad faith example. For starters you are saying that you would be in no danger from going home with a stranger unless they had a penis, which is manifestly untrue. Also, if you decided to go home with someone who you considered to be a woman, how would it matter if it was Self ID or not? How would the organisers know? Realistically though, in my opinion she should have disclosed she was trans, especially pre op before you went home. Then you obviously could have declined.

This is what I don't get. You are literally having these discussions constantly here and in national newspapers. I honestly don't understand what you want.

Are you kidding? ? Mumsnet.com is the ONLY site where you can say anything gender critical or even mildly critical of the ideology without being deleted or banned!

Twitter is banning feminists by the day. A user who ONLY EVER posted screens shots of abuse that trans activists gave out was banned.

Newspaper comments, anything gender critical is erased.

Gender critical Facebook pages are taken down while pages doxxing "terfs" and threatening feminists remain.

MPs are terrified to debate for fear of being accused of "transphobia" because every fucking thing is "transphobic" if it's not "Transwomen are women" repeated over and over and over.

What do we want?? Stop telling us to STFU and #no debate we are rising and we will be heared. Women are uniting on this issue and we will not be oppressed.

I’m a widow and have absolutely no interest or wish to be with another man. I will go to my grave not wanting to be with another man. Does that make me a closet lesbian? Well it makes as much sense as a man calling himself one, because he wants a lesbian to play with his ‘lady dick’. Actually if probably makes more sense because at least I’m a woman.

Well that's it isn't it. It is a shared reality, if you tell me you are gay and I then know that you told me you are gay. Then you have self identified as being gay. Simple as that really.

With respect to transition. Self ID is just a buzzword to refer to the streamlining of the GRC procedure.

It's not because of the fact they have penis (although statistics certainly evidence how violence is much more common from biological males). It's because you would be -in their eyes- massively offending them by suggesting you don't accept them as a woman. And on the second point, you're contradicting yourself. If transwomen see themselves as 100% genuine women then why would they be actively saying "I'm a transwoman"? Unless they recognise they aren't really.

Aren't really a proper woman I mean

pinkpanther that is a bit hypothetical because you can usually tell when someone has a Penis by their face and body shape. And voice.

The point is, not everyone agrees that transwomen are women, so not everyone agrees that a transwomen can be a lesbian, but you don't really want to piss off a massive straight bloke in a lesbian only space by saying anything. You'd be VERY naive to think that won't end badly.

Well it's just good manners isn't it really.

With respect to transition. Self ID is just a buzzword to refer to the streamlining of the GRC procedure removal of all women's protected spaces, rights and all sex based discrimination laws
Fixed that for you

I suppose it is. I'm genuinely not being goady but now I think about it, of all the transwomen I know of -who have took over all the local lesbian groups-- not one really 'passes'.

8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

What's good manners? Being upfront that you're a transwomen? But again, if they feel that they're really woman, they wouldn't think to distinguish?

With respect to transition. Self ID is just a buzzword to refer to the streamlining of the GRC procedure removal of all women's protected spaces, rights and all sex based discrimination laws

There's no arguing with that paranoia. Laters, I guess.

The facts have a distinct reality based bias against you, wandersail.

Quite aside from how much of the trans narrative erases homosexuality totally, the abuse lesbians suffer from 'transgender' people and this 'transing kids' thing being the modern day gay eugenics...T is nothing at all to do with sexuality. So not sure why it was ever added in the first place. It makes no sense at all.

The T was added to assist and protect gay males because homosexuality was a crime prior to 1967 in the UK and different in different states in the US until 2015.

wandersail"But this hypothetical situation is such a bad faith example. For starters you are saying that you would be in no danger from going home with a stranger unless they had a penis, which is manifestly untrue."

Are you suggesting women are as dangerous to be around as men, because that is manifestly untrue!

"Also, if you decided to go home with someone who you considered to be a woman, how would it matter if it was Self ID or not?" It would matter to a lesbian if they were male. I'm not a lesbian but I do know what lesbian means!

"Self ID is just a buzzword to refer to the streamlining of the GRC procedure." No it is not. You really don't seem to understand what self-id is for 'gender'.

The behavior of transgender advocates is strikingly similar to that of abusers. DARVO
Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim and Offender.