Should the T be in LGBT?

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Not sure where I should post this, but Feminist Chat seems to be the main area where trans issues are discussed, and where there are L and T posters contributing.

Should T be included in LGB, given that T tries to erase L and G?

Should T be included in LGB, given that L, G and B (and all the other sexualities) are about how people relate to other people, whereas T is about how people relate to themselves?

No. I am a bisexual woman, I am “LGB” because of my sexuality. T is not a sexuality. I have no idea why it’s there.

No it shouldn't and the sooner it is dropped the sooner all this misogynist, homophobic bullshit will stop being accepted as 'progressive'

I understand now what you were trying to do, StillTryingHard, (sorry for my ) but I don't think it helps in the way you think it does. Conflating sex and gender is the problem, and including T with LGB disguises it. Most people aren't understanding that, and aren't going to understand the problem behind it until they are 'peak transed'

As for that bloke telling you that you are not entitled to talk about feminist issues as I don't have the right lexicon or theoretical framework - what an arse! No, I don't either. I'm gradually educating myself. But any woman is entitled to talk about feminist issues by virtue of being - guess what - a woman! Yes, an adult female human.

I’ve been saying this for a while.
Being T has nothing to do with sexual orientation. LGB is specifically about sexual orientation. They don’t belong together at all.

No. LGB was always truly about wanting to be left alone to do their thing, which harms no-one else. Their message for young LGB people was 'it gets better' - there was hope, a personal celebration of what they could be.

Then T (well, TAs) comes along and it's all threats and blackmail - give us what we want or your kids will kill themselves - it's a fundamentally abusive stance, that LGB just doesn't have - no hope, just demands and grief.

Cuckoo in the nest is the perfect description.

I remember my confusion when I first saw the T.
Why, if someone wants to be accepted as a particular gender, would they go all out to wave their 'difference' in people's faces?

So no, I don't think it belongs. Unless they are prepared to accept a separate third gender of T.

Can't have it both ways.

I don't think T belongs with LGB. I. Not sure if L would be better alone or for LGB to distance from T. But they may not. They may be too afraid like many of us. The transgender 'movement' is hugely damaging.

Self-I'd may well cause the transgender 'movement' to implode!

I feel very sorry for all the people caught up in this. Gender non-confirming is the way to go for all but the seriously dysphoric, IMHO.

LGB should be based on sex, as in homosexuality, bisexuality, not on 'gender'.

If the well-deserved backlash becomes the province of the right, we’re all collateral damage

Feminists, LGB people, and also transsexuals.

Lol, but Mumsnet doesn't hate trans people at all! They just want to separate them from valuable support networks and marginalise them within their own communities. Totes not transphobic though, we love Miranda Yardley and those other middle aged "TIMS" who say what we want them to. Reasonable concerns... etc.

But what do they actually have in common Wandersail? As a lesbian, I feel that I have no more in common with transsexuals than Travellers - another minority group. Should we also lump LGB issues in with them? If not, why not? And how does it differ to lumping LGB in with the T?

Well aside from the fact that a lot of transgender people are also Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual there are commonalities in the prejudice that they face. You might not feel that you relate to transgender people but other LGB people do.

As well as that, there are gay and lesbian people that take issue with bisexuals. Do you think that the B should be removed if people take issue with that?

Nope.

Being T has nothing to do with sexual orientation. LGB is specifically about sexual orientation. They don’t belong together at all.
This ^^. Seriously fed up with it.

There are also LGB Travellers so the argument still stands. Bisexuality is a sexuality and therefore in the same spectrum/category as L and G. Again, totally different gender issues.

Well aside from the fact that a lot of transgender people are also Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual there are commonalities in the prejudice that they face.
Quite a lot of autistic people are LGB too and face prejudice on account of their autism - can we add an A for autistic in there too?! You can't plonk everyone in a group just because they share prejudice. LGB is about sexuality. T isn't. T people can be in the LGB group because of their LGB sexuality but not because of being T.

Trans identified males advocating for transitioning away the Gay and Lesbians hardly seems a good fit for the LGB support organizations, eh?

How can LGB reclaim their ground? It breaks my heart the way Lesbians are being treated by Transwomen.....

Never should have been there....

T people can be in the LGB group because of their LGB sexuality but not because of being T.

Yes, I imagine that's probably how everything got mingled together. Seems like a natural progression to me to want to include those people and their identities.

You can't plonk everyone in a group just because they share prejudice

I'm not. They are already in a group. Presumably, if you want to remove the T you would have to start new groups, who would then inevitably have to compete with the inclusive groups. Seems pointless to me.

Never should have been added in the first place. Nothing to do with sexuality. Lesbians have orgniased sepeartely in the past and need to do it again imo.
The language has changed but its still all about misogyny,sexism and mens needs in the alphabet soup organisations.

What would they be competing over? Bar funding? And if they did split, presumably the monies used for specific T projects would still be allocated as such.

That's interesting, the Wikipedia link does not include either sex, gender or gender reassignment as characteristics that can be legally defended against hate speech. Maybe because the battle of the sexes is so deeply ingrained?