Transgender Trend's new resource pack for schools

[Betti936]

www.transgendertrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Transgender-Trend-Resource-Pack-for-Schools.pdf

The thirdforce news has a very long and thoughtful comment.

No other news outlet, yet.

If people detransition, then transgender is not like being gay. That may be a problem if you believe being transgender is like being gay.

The thirdforce news has a very long and thoughtful comment.

Why thank you.

(It was supposed to have paragraphs and line breaks but the site stripped them out and made it hard to read. And there's no way to edit it.)

I was a lesbian and I detransitioned (seriously!) - that was hard enough work, I lost lots of friends and ended up in an abusive relationship with a man in part because I thought I ought to make it work as it had turned my life upside down. The social pressure makes it hard enough without the medical issues.

Oldman - it crossed my mind. Have a

Gerbil - I can't pretend to have any knowledge - I assumed that once you worked things out, it was fixed doh! But it does make sense that someone would need to try to be what they thought it was they wanted, even if they are not transgender. It does sound like a major earthquake, even without all the accompanying surgery etc.

This is an interesting comparison video. The Satanic Panic era has been discussed on other threads before.

You are not trying to argue with those who have already made up their minds. Politics is more often than not about persuading people who are not wedded to an idea or concept.

Know the audience you are pitching to. Its not TRAs. So why take them on?

Melamin I'm really bisexual, though when I came out (late 80s) bisexuals "didn't exist" and in any case, there isn't really a bisexual community - particularly when you're younger and going clubbing and drinking it polarises into lesbian and gay or straight. I think it is very similar to being trans, if you have these feelings then your straight friends are not going to help you much, so you seek out another community but that is just as rigid, maybe more so because of oppression, so you're trying to fit your unique self (!) into fixed social structures with the pressure that brings. I used to have secret sex with men who I'd be afraid to hold hands with in public - it sounds kind of mad now but that's what social pressure can do.

So Lily Madigan is having a touch of the vapours about this document on Twitter, claiming it “encourages conversion therapy” and saying “Trans kids are so vulnerable in schools already!! Nearly half are trying to kill themselves ffs!”.

Good grief.

I wish The Samaritans would wade in on this. The whole promotion of suicidal ideation goes against all best practice and safeguarding.

So irresponsible.

I wish The Samaritans would wade in on this. The whole promotion of suicidal ideation goes against all best practice and safeguarding

Someone's been pointing that out on Lily's posts. Could be a good tactic, pointing out the suicide reporting guidelines, whenever they post them.

Good. We need to keep doing this to every tweet with dodgy suicide stats.

Yes. It also usefully avoids getting derailed into arguments about the validity of the stats

Madigan's now trying to get Labour to take action against one its election candidates for sharing this document:

twitter.com/madigan_lily/status/964914651527024640

Mentioned suicide again I see.

Also here is a good analysis of where that stat (41% of trans ppl have tried to kill themselves) comes from:

4thwavenow.com/2015/08/03/the-41-trans-suicide-rate-a-tale-of-flawed-data-and-lazy-journalists/

It's taken from a study whose authors caution that this number should not be understood to be the real rate of suicidality among trans people, especially trans kids as they:

-did not include under 18s in this study
-didn't probe into the history of respondents (i.e. trauma, mental health etc)
-did not follow their normal procedure when it comes to self-reported suicidality (when they do the self-reported suicide attempt rate usually halves)
-did not normalise for various factors (i.e. certain mental health conditions come with increased suicidality)
-didn't investigate why ppl who had transitioned or sought to transition had a higher suicide attempt rate than those who didn't
-didn't investigate if the latter attempted suicide before or after transitioning (which is quite important when the argument is transition or die)
-didn't investigate why biological females did not benefit from being stealth trans or passing as male (biological males did)

So once again, there are no reliable stats supporting the assertion that trans kids will kill themselves if they do not transition.

Interesting video OvaHere - Yes, there are a number of similarities.

This is a current campaign tackling mental health discrimination.

www.time-to-change.org.uk/about-us/about-our-campaign/time-to-talk

Am I understanding this right, from that explanation of the 41% article?

Transitioning does not seem to stop self harming in transmen. Even those who were perceived as men by others still self harmed.

Is that right???

Which suggests they need some other sort of intervention.

Given that 70% of those who were referred to the Tavistock as children, should we be EVEN MORE concerned that all these TRAs are screaming that these kids should absolutely not have any other sort of support / therapy?

Please will someone look at that and tell me I'm not reading this incorrectly.

Because if they genuinely do believe that 41% rate and value that report, then the fact that they ignore that little detail is even more abhorrent than the whole 'trans kids will keeeeeeeelllll themselves' stick.

Conversation therapy
Counselling- it's bad. Talking generally - terrible idea
That's really tickled me....

I see Lily is also autistic

Tbh I wouldn't be entirely surprised at that being true. As much as Lily frustrates me most of my ire is reserved for older, higher up Labour officials who have allowed and encouraged the whole situation.

I see Lily is also autistic

I noticed that but I’m becoming wary of criticising Lily as it feeds into her persecution complex. Obviously it doesn’t work both ways - criticism of anyone who doesn’t agree with Lily is fine and dandy - but we all know now how good the TRAs are at playing the martyr.

Where are the false statistics in this? I don't see any. The attempt at 'debunking' was anything but, it was a load of 'maybes' and 'who cares' and such