Transgender Trend's new resource pack for schools

[Betti936]

www.transgendertrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Transgender-Trend-Resource-Pack-for-Schools.pdf

They truly think that this is going to be played out between them and feminists. Not them and the rest of the country.

Yes! And of course, they are so self-obsessed that even if you got them to realise that, they would still think that only the 10% or so of the country that is still viciously homophobic would be against them. They honestly have no idea that once the implications are responsibly and properly discussed in the media, 90% of the country would be horrified.

The 80% figure may or may not be accurate. Certainly it's not as "debunked" as some claim. A range of studies show desistance rates from 60-90%. And in any case, it's kind of an attempt, I feel, to focus the conversation on one small part. What matters is that we have a reasonable idea that a large proportion of children considered trans end up being happy with the sex they're born with.

As long as clinical intervention causes long-term and irreversible effects and we know a large number of children desist, that's the argument against being anything but very, very cautious in subjecting them to it.

They are very very rattled over this.

Of course they are. I said this on another thread, but TRAs need to get this legislation passed under the radar, once it gets out into the public purview no politician will touch it as it will be so toxic. Public opinion is against this, it's just that the public doesn't k own yet.

A range of studies show desistance rates from 60-90%

Yes..most studies show a very high desistance rate.

But one outlier, that apparently claims 10% is grabbed onto like a lifejacket. But..to me..when dealing with sterilizing kids and medicalizing them for life, 10% is even way too high an amount who would otherwise desist who are shoved onto the self-fulfilling prophecy of blockers.

The 80% figure may or may not be accurate. Certainly it's not as "debunked" as some claim. A range of studies show desistance rates from 60-90%. And in any case, it's kind of an attempt, I feel, to focus the conversation on one small part. What matters is that we have a reasonable idea that a large proportion of children considered trans end up being happy with the sex they're born with.

And even if we're not certain about what the actual figure is, then what we actually need to call for is a properly conducted unbiased study into what the actual rate is. What possible reason could there be to not want to know the actual number?

Same thing with the question of whether TIM continue to offend at the same rate as biological men. Think that Swedish study was based on too small a sample size to be significant? Well maybe that's true. Let's call for a bigger study and actually find out.

The second case could be undermined by people actually not giving that much of a shit about women and girls being at greater risk of rape, and ho hum, no change there then but the first? When it relates to the long-term wellbeing of transgender individuals? You'd think that'd be a number they'd want to be pretty damn certain about, wouldn't you?

Probably with poor kids on puberty blockers and socially transitioned. They must know how manipulative they're being? How can they do this? And why do policy makers lap it up?

Same thing with the question of whether TIM continue to offend at the same rate as biological men.

Damn, my wording is crappy as hell. This is to be read as:

'whether TIMs continue to commit violent crime (particularly sexually motivated crime) at the same rate as biological men who do not identify as trans.'

But one outlier, that apparently claims 10% is grabbed onto like a lifejacket. But..to me..when dealing with sterilizing kids and medicalizing them for life, 10% is even way too high an amount who would otherwise desist who are shoved onto the self-fulfilling prophecy of blockers.

I've seen worse outliers than 10% passed about. Had someone on Twitter earlier post a figure of 4% (from someone's blogpost). Haven't taken the time to analyse how they got to that figure but it's insanely low. Yet the trans-activists are busy Liking and re-tweeting it because they want to believe. That's not science.

I have signed in to mumsnet for the first time in yonks to reply to this.
THIS BOOKLET IS TERRIBLE!
BIased, one sided, misinformed and could potentially cause harm.
www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/02/14/trans-kids-guide-is-inaccurate-and-deeply-damaging-say-lgbt-activists/
If you see it, burn it.

Only facists burn books.

Reasonable people debate. What do you think is going to cause harm exactly?

Yes, much harm will be caused by more acceptance of gender non-conforming children. Rather than, you know, telling them thats them not following stereotypes means they actually are the opposite sex and setting them up for a lifetime of drugs and such. Instead of just..accepting that stereotypes have fuck all to do with what sex you are and that people should be able to be as feminine or as masculine as they wish and it hs no bearing on their actual sex at all.

Henchman, have you some more details about what is wrong with it exactly?

@Henchman21

I have already seen thus document, am delighted someone has published clear, unbiased guidelines for schools, and will be sending a copy to my head teacher and colleagues as soon as we’re back at school next week.

Nice to be called a fascist.
Besides, it’s not a book, it’s a downloadable leaflet.

The publication is nothing but negative. The case studies are all negative and from people with regrets, the statistics are weighted towards discouraging trans kids, and could lead to transgender children feeling even worse about themselves.
I think a lot of posters in here are experiencing a bit of confirmation bias.
Shouldn’t transgender (which means anyone who identifies with a different gender than the one they were assigned at birth - not just FTM and MTF people) people be supported and celebrated rather than questioned?
This comes from someone who questioned their gender and sexuality for years before accepting it aged 31. Resources like this would have made it worse for child me.

people be supported and celebrated rather than questioned?

Supported, yes. Celebrated no. Why would you celebrate someone who has psychological disconnect between the brain and body?

What's fun about that?

Don't you wonder why 2000 children are year are showing up to gender clinics? Most of them girls.

When a boy comes to school claiming he's a girl, decked out in feminine clothing and being given a cake, celebrated and elevated to above the status of the other children. Girls are looking at themselves thinking if that's a girl what the hell am I?

Henchman21

I haven't seen a single rebuttal of anything that is actually in that guide.

Just oh my God the witches wrote it, burn it.

You say that the booklet would have given you distress. Can you specify the actual parts? Cut and paste?

Because I'm sure the last thing the author wants is distressed children. It's the opposite of what she wants. So it would be really useful, to know which bits.

Thanks for coming back and replying @Henchman21. I think the format of the resource is irrelevant as you were the one who suggested burning it. And I’m sure you’re aware that book-burning has been a common feature of oppressive regimes in history.

I work in a school - I’d be interested to know what “celebrating” children who don’t conform to gender stereotypes would look like in practice? What do you think school staff should be doing to challenge gender stereotypes that we’re not already doing?

And how do we support gender non-conforming children while at the same time telling children that Josh is now a girl because she’s growing her hair and wearing a dress?

anyone who identifies with a different gender than the one they were assigned at birth

My second 'assigned at birth ' in 2 days. We are attracting a new crowd to the board and I must say I'm enjoying it.

Have you been present at a birth Hanchman ? Can you please describe the assigning process? At my children's births the midwife had a peek at their genitals, noted 'M' and moved on. I'd like to know if she was doing it wrong.

I don't think being supported and questioned are mutually exclusive things. When dealing with under 18's watchful waiting is the most sensible option.

Not all children will continue with GD into adulthood, puberty is one of the most confusing periods of anyones life and it's unwise to set them on a medical pathway until they have had chance to mature and fully understand ramifications of the decisions they are making.

Given that adult transgender ideology seems to be heading in a direction of penises can be female, vaginas can be male and your outward appearance has no bearing on your inner gender then why do these same adults insist that children are put on a medical pathway as soon as possible?

Perhaps you don't agree with the above but I'm afraid in the current climate that would make you transphobic because there is a big push for gender dysphoria to not even be any kind of benchmark of being trans. How does this tally up with children being put on puberty blockers and cross hormones?

I'm glad you were able to come to terms with your gender and sexuality but as you say you were able to do that as an adult and largely without some of the pressures that children in 2018 are under due to increasingly rigid gender stereotyping and body issues stemming from mass availability of porn in the last decade.

The document uses the phrase 'kind acceptance'. That's not questioning. I can't see where it tells teachers to 'question' children about these choices?
You don't 'celebrate' a child in this way in a school. Parents can do that at home. The schools needs to make sure that their rules allow children to dress as they want and to explore identity as they grow and to make sure that everyone is kind, fair, friendly and not bullying anyone.

Henchman21 - so kind acceptance and watchful waiting aren't enough for you? Nothing less than absolute valorisation and affirmation on a path that will lead to drastic medical intervention for life is enough for you? Nothing less than the complete disregard for the development and comfort of all other children in a school is enough for you?

The publication is nothing but negative

henchman. Thank you for you response. Do you agree that your second comment (above) is a lot more moderate than your first, which condemned the publication as 'terrible' and 'could cause harm'?

Do you think that the local Pride charity who have publicly stated that this publication is "dangerous" are scaremongering?

Given that adult transgender ideology seems to be heading in a direction of penises can be female, vaginas can be male and your outward appearance has no bearing on your inner gender then why do these same adults insist that children are put on a medical pathway as soon as possible?

This. Absolutely.

I wish the TRA fraternity would make their minds up. If external sexual characteristics do matter, stop trying to tell us a penis can be female and a vagina can be male.

If they don't matter, leave poor confused kids alone to be themselves and enjoy their childhood. Tell them they are allowed to be exactly who they are and stop with the incredibly harmful "your body is wrong" message.

They can't have it both ways.

^I have signed in to mumsnet for the first time in yonks to reply to this.
THIS BOOKLET IS TERRIBLE!^
BIased, one sided, misinformed and could potentially cause harm.

This is the only response you need to this post.

lilymaynard.wordpress.com/2018/02/15/ban-it-bin-it-shred-it-transgender-trends-new-guidelines-for-schools-the-activists-that-hate-it/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
“Ban it! Bin it! Shred it!” Transgender Trend’s new guidelines for schools & the activists that hate it.

Firstly I should say that reading this blog post is no substitute for reading the guidelines yourself. You can download them here, and if you find them to be practical, compassionate and all-inclusive, I would urge you to share them with your child’s school.

^For those who are expecting something sensational, you will be
disappointed^

And

I urge you again, if you haven’t read the guidelines, read them. Look for the hatred, the exclusion, the harm, the conversion therapy, the misinformation, the evil. Then, when you can’t find it, ask yourself what possible reason certain people could have for not wanting this guidance to reach schools. You might want to have a look at what they’re saying about the pack on mumsnet. You might want to ask yourself just who it is that has an agenda here, and what that agenda might be.

The blog points out that everyone saying its dreadful has also not pointed to a single thing in the 48 page document as being transphobic.

There will be a reason for that. There isn't. All these people what is total affirmation. Thats avoidance type behaviour.

I'll leave it at that point.

Henchman if you are doing something irreversible then hell yes, its better to wait until your thirties to do it.

If you want to break it down then do it from a scientific point of view. For every one person who does transition in their 30s, how many who identified as teenagers desisted?

This is called risk assessment.

Where does the risk lie? Kids transitioning when its the wrong choice could have just as many issues as someone who is happy with it. You need to cater to the needs of BOTH.

They need to sort out the reasons for doing so, rather than just looking for affirmation and positive noises. Its critical self assessment.

I'm sorry but its not just about trans people who feel they have made the right decision. Its also about people with complex health and social issues who are particularly vulnerable to ideas which might provide an explanation on the surface but ultimately do not provide the solution.

Its not about you.

RedToothBrush

Thanks for posting that Lily Maynard piece.

It's certainly striking, that if you read TGT's guidance, and then read that from Mermaids/GIRES, the latter comes across as wild zealotry.

It really shows up the bias.