Spectator article: Don't fall for it people

[JenniferJames]

Comrades,

The framing of the self-id debate as 'Corbynistas vs. Mumsnet' is a deliberate tactic by the right wing propaganda machine and done to undermine Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party and paint it as hopelessly divided. We're not.

It is important to remember that only a Corbyn gov't will lift women out of poverty, build homes, invest in the economy, make tuition fees free and stop invading the Middle East. Jeremy, though he doesn't hold our position, is the only Labour MP who has not only come out and said that women are entitled to a debate and to campaign against self-id, but that we have a right to raise money to see if the Equalities Act 2010 exemptions are being misused by AWS.

Hope everyone is well. Mumsnet you are indeed mighty.

@BigEthel "I'm 55 and I've lost count of the number of times we've been told to "have faith" in men changing things for us."

It's starting to feel like the frog in a pot story to me now.

Women have been accused of being splitters for raising feminist issues for as long as I can remember, in multiple different movements. My eyebrows shot all the way up to my hairline when I saw similar language being used in this thread and have yet to resume their usual position.

AngryAttackKittens

I'm getting an uncomfortable feeling that the other thread about intersectionality may be a set-up and a throwing under the bus of mumsnet may be in the offing. I hope I'm wrong.

Can you elaborate?

Related to comment above. Are we being framed as the splitters responsible for potential internal party strife? Is this going to play out as, oh well some of us have reasonable concerns but those other women over there are the reasons things have gone wrong?

The fact that I'm feeling uncomfortable even typing this out probably says some very bad things about the extent to which earlier comments eroded trust for me.

@Hygge I've never seen that before but yes, this.

I don’t even understand what JJ means with that tweet. But I wish I had kept my tenner.

I view my tenner as contributing to bringing this to wider attention. But I don't feel motivated to give any more looking at the way this is playing out.

What OOAOML said.

They'd never have stood for this at the Chalet School...

Ha ha - Dr Jack would have sorted any confused teens out with a sedative and Joey would have shrieked with laughter.

@EmyRoo I was thinking the same thing. I won't be donating more now.

The problem is that there are so many agendas that intersect with internal party politics.
JJ contributors definitely signed up to the fight re AWS but not to supporting Corbin.
I think it would be wise for her to use the fund ( and the comms associated with it) on just this. Any remaining money could be passed to Woman’s Place UK, for those who do not want it returned.
Jennifer is fighting a number of battles and needs to be really boundaried in relation to what she does/says in the name of the fund.

I wonder if the Tweet dissociating herself from those other 'transphobic' people on her timeline is JJ trying to prove that the reasons for her suspension were wrong so that she can resume membership of the Labour party? She does seem very dedicated to it, and to Corbyn.

I'm a supporter of neither. I'd vote for Labour if they took a stand against self-ID. I'd vote for the Tories if they were the ones to see reason. My donation was intended to support AWS, not Corbyn/Labour more generally, and I agree that she needs to be very careful about what the funds are used for.

Forget the twitter spats - let's just support Jennifer's legal challenge against self ID for Labour AWS. It's a good start and that's what we all donated for in the first place. She's started the ball rolling yesterday - there's an update on the fundraiser.

I'm just sad it's got all tangled up with party politics, if-you-aren't-with-us-you're-against-us stuff.
There is no doubt some people posting on these threads do not like trans people. But that's the internet for you. Some people don't like immigrants or Muslims and will use reasonable threads as a jumping off point for their unreasonable views.
I think most of us are against trans politics not trans people, let's keep that in mind and keep calm when we read things inferring we are all transphobes.

Forget the twitter spats - let's just support Jennifer's legal challenge against self ID for Labour AWS. It's a good start and that's what we all donated for in the first place.

I agree. There will never be a perfect "leader" upon whom we all agree because this issue totally transcends party politics. I'm usually a Labour voter so I am glad that it was Jen who started something that could legally challenge self-ID and that it was within the Labour Party. But I would have equally supported a LibDem crowdfunder to challenge self-ID within AWS in that party. I would support a crowdfund started by a Tory party activist if it challenged self-ID within another area.

We have to get cross party about this.

Ideally there would be multiple different legal challenges to TRA overreaches because a. makes the point that a broad cross-section of women are concerned about this, b. means there isn't too much pressure on any one case as the one everything rests on, and c. avoids precisely this kind of in order to support X you must also believe Y stuff.

I don't regret donating although I am not Labour. However, that tweet from JJ does seem to show the underlying belief of Labour that nothing good comes out of anyone or any body that is not Labour. The pettiness is sad.

Thanks for the link to the Jenn Smith interview. 'I am a stickler for reality'. Excellent.

The Jenn Smith interview was interesting BUT I think he went off the rails when he talked about immigration, and the chaos that would be caused by a "hyper liberal" trans accepting society and a fundamentalist Muslim community. It seems to me that you're ok to be trans in the mid east and near East (Iranian Womens football team?!) just not Gay. Which fits in quite well with the trend for telling gay kids theye are really in the "wrong body"..
Anyway. I'm with BigEthel RE the labour movements disregard for women's rights.
I still remember the miners strike, and how hard women fought, how hard they worked, how non mining families took in miner's kids and (women) looked after them.
We are all well and good when we're serving, but we better not demand anything that's just for us, God forbid!

This description of Corbyn as being "the only Labour MP who has not only come out and said that women are entitled to a debate and to campaign against self-id, but that we have a right to raise money to see if the Equalities Act 2010 exemptions are being misused by AWS" depresses me. This position came out in an interview in which he did his typical 'say 2 contradictory things at once, vaguely enough to hope no-one notices' tactic. We've seen it with Brexit and I'm surprised people still fall for it. He's throwing women under the bus but because he tosses a couple of placatory words we're supposed to be grateful.

No thanks.

I am cross-party about this, I also recall it was a non -Labour MNetter who got the initial press coverage.

But to get ‘Mumsnet Tories’ (rather than thank you to the non-Labour donators) sticks in my throat. I am a single parent, £10 is not nothing to me, but I would not vote for Corbyn, sorry.

t is important to remember that only a Corbyn gov't will lift women out of poverty, build homes, invest in the economy, make tuition fees free and stop invading the Middle East.

I think the "Mumsnet Tories" tweet was aimed at all of us, not just those who are actually Conservative voters. So basically, anyone who doesn't think Corbyn is the Messiah is a Tory?

What has that naughty boy corbyn been up to today?

He wants the UK to be a leader on animal welfare - excellent I like that

Visiting Scotland - good good

Standing up for women's rights - no nothing, not a peep. Still a bad boy. Clearly hoping that Scotland's females are not the same as the horrible mnetters.

I don't understand why Corbyn supporters insist he is the only one who would effect change.

Do you really have so little faith in your party to think that Corbyn is the only one who can do any good?

Is a heterosexual white man who went to private school that exciting and different? I think you'll find bar a few exceptions that's pretty much all we've had solidly for a few hundred years.