Spectator article: Don't fall for it people

[JenniferJames]

Comrades,

The framing of the self-id debate as 'Corbynistas vs. Mumsnet' is a deliberate tactic by the right wing propaganda machine and done to undermine Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party and paint it as hopelessly divided. We're not.

It is important to remember that only a Corbyn gov't will lift women out of poverty, build homes, invest in the economy, make tuition fees free and stop invading the Middle East. Jeremy, though he doesn't hold our position, is the only Labour MP who has not only come out and said that women are entitled to a debate and to campaign against self-id, but that we have a right to raise money to see if the Equalities Act 2010 exemptions are being misused by AWS.

Hope everyone is well. Mumsnet you are indeed mighty.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

The stress I totally get, I just think that a quick "sorry I lashed out, will try not to do that in future" would go a long way, given the responses that other thread it getting. Stop the fragmentation before it gets any worse.

I agree. Can't see it happening however....

[CertainHalfDesertedStreets]

Yep

[LangCleg]

But the people who are good at building coalitions aren't always the same people who are good at whistleblowing and being willing to turn their world upside down for a principle. We need all different kinds of people

Yep.

[TallulahWaitingInTheRain]

Well I agree with that. But the people who are good at building coalitions aren't always the same people who are good at whistleblowing and being willing to turn their world upside down for a principle. We need all different kinds of people

[AngryAttackKittens]

The stress I totally get, I just think that a quick "sorry I lashed out, will try not to do that in future" would go a long way, given the responses that other thread it getting. Stop the fragmentation before it gets any worse.

[TallulahWaitingInTheRain]

On this thread she acknowledges that she has been unhelpfully confrontational and that a cross-party movement is needed

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3168443-Team-Smash-The-Patriarchy-needs-Mumsnet-input-representation

I'd also add that I lost a key professional identity under not dissimilar circumstances a few years ago and I went briefly completely bonkers. I have a lot of sympathy for people in JJs position regardless of political affiliation.

[Everyonematters]

Wow Patodb! Can you put the text of that up?

[AngryAttackKittens]

Sigh. I used to like Stella Creasy. I wish there was a way to at least know if people like that mean what they're saying (so, they've lost their shit and no longer know what a woman is) or they're pandering (cowardly, but if enough others speak out they make rediscover their spines eventually).

[Patodp]

My reply from Stella Creasy was that I'm doing feminism all wrong and I need to be more inclusive.
Your reply is magnificent!

[AngryAttackKittens]

Basically I feel like we're being used as a resource rather than approached as political allies.

[AngryAttackKittens]

It's the slinging insults at us and then coming back with "comrades" and "what do you think about intersectionality" that's not sitting well with me. Everyone has bad days sometimes, but most people when that happens acknowledge it and say sorry, rather than just carrying on as if it never happened.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to continue to back her legal challenge, but on a personal level I'm not impressed.

[Cerealcomplainer]

Faith search my name to see he response from my MP ( v wishy washy). Yours is much better.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

This isn't easy for anyone & I think we all need to cut each other a little slack.

There is cutting slack and there are the things JJ has said.

She has crossed a line over this. Her response to JK tweet, her posts on this thread have crossed a line imo.

[MissEliza]

You address us as comrades? Utterly pathetic.

[TallulahWaitingInTheRain]

I agree that getting bogged down in a political squabble is not helpful at this point, but what we really need to do is to get a proper debate started about these issues and Jennifer, Janice Turner & Helen Lewis have all contributed hugely to that process. In Jen's case this has been achieved through the sacrifice of what was clearly a hugely important part of her life and identity i.e. her standing in the Labour Party.

This isn't easy for anyone & I think we all need to cut each other a little slack.

[JustHooking]

I hate how they keep saying it's a complex issue, it really isn't
Maintain single sex spaces. Move towards single cubicle toilets but shared facilities single sex
Provide a third space for gender neutral

[EmyRoo]

Faith that letter is better than some of the others posted on other threads. It is a balanced response, which acknowledges your concerns. We all support those struggling with gender dysphoria, but self-ID is not about that.

[TheXXFactor]

I guess if we were fool enough to believe JJ and gave her money we are indeed insult worthy

Nothing to regret. Whatever JJ's motivations, the media attention on the campaign has done wonders for peak-transing the public.

[thebewilderness]

I guess if we were fool enough to believe JJ and gave her money we are indeed insult worthy.

[TravellingFleet]

Gosh, never realised I’m a fucking imbecile :-) Always good to get unvarnished feedback while grinding the faces of the poor or whatever it was non-Corbyn supporters were accused of doing.

[AngryAttackKittens]

Me too, XX. I'm hoping she may come around but it's not looking good so far, and if the plan is to make this into a party political issue then I'm not having it. This is not about which faction wins control of the Labour party, it's much bigger than that. Time to take off the blinkers.

[thebewilderness]

Which, I mean...effective environmentalism involves a fair bit of science, you'd think knowing that women don't have cocks and that male mammals don't get pregnant would be a prerequisite for involvement in the Green party.
Yep!

[TheXXFactor]

I think what may have happened was that Jennifer assumed that anyone supporting the fundraiser was either a party member or very much pro Labour and just hadn't joined the party for whatever reason, and was therefore a bit blindsided by the discovery that in fact women from all over the political spectrum donated because they're concerned about the impact of self-ID in general and wanted a test case to happen. Hopefully she will at some point take that on board and decide that strategic alliances are needed in order to tackle the broader issues with self-ID and trans activism in general, but the insistence that everyone have the same level of enthusiasm for Corbyn that she does and the general hostility towards women who don't see things exactly the way she does is a potential problem.

A huge problem. She called MNetters who don't share her cult-like devotion to Corbyn 'fucking imbeciles' and she has slagged off every gender critical journalist, including Janice Turner & Helen Lewis (both Labour Party members) because they accurately reported Corbyn's comments on AWS.

I'm grateful for her AWS campaign, which has brought the issue to much wider attention, but I am saddened by her ingratitude to all the women who supported her on here.

[Everyonematters]

Not just Clive Lewis, Terfy. A certain MP too.

[Nickynackynoodle]

THE one before the mammals one... not that that one’s not great too...