Spectator article: Don't fall for it people

[JenniferJames]

Comrades,

The framing of the self-id debate as 'Corbynistas vs. Mumsnet' is a deliberate tactic by the right wing propaganda machine and done to undermine Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party and paint it as hopelessly divided. We're not.

It is important to remember that only a Corbyn gov't will lift women out of poverty, build homes, invest in the economy, make tuition fees free and stop invading the Middle East. Jeremy, though he doesn't hold our position, is the only Labour MP who has not only come out and said that women are entitled to a debate and to campaign against self-id, but that we have a right to raise money to see if the Equalities Act 2010 exemptions are being misused by AWS.

Hope everyone is well. Mumsnet you are indeed mighty.

[athingthateveryoneneeds]

I most definitely welcome further light being shone on this issue, and @JenniferJames has done a bang up job of that! Thanks very much for putting yourself on the line for all women. Seriously.

I'm still holding out hope that JC will open up a debate/discussion on Self ID that will educate the public and not just further entrench himself on the side of the TRAs. Time will tell, I suppose.

#nomorenodebate
#Terfragette

The article was FANTASTIC.

[WiggyPig]

Being entitled to a debate is thin pickings. Esp from someone who publicly backs self id.

Yeah, that.

[Nickynackynoodle]

+1 to EmyRoo

[Terftastic]

Jennifer - I really appreciate what you and others have done here. You've raised your head above the parapet, and done so much to raise the issue of self ID and it's repercussions.

Take it easy x

[JenniferJames]

Popychk... Well the policy makers in the party are the members. Don't think that we haven't made things happen, we have. Self-id was raised at the last NEC because of us. The NEC were about to confirm that only transwomen with a GRC were eligible for AWS but then the statement was pulled.
We, well mostly you on Mumsnet, with your donations and your amplification, have pushed this into the mainstream. Pretty soon politicians are going to have to break cover on what position they take.

If anyone finds out what their MP thinks, let me know.

MPs definitely for us so far:
Laura Pidcock L
Liz McInness L
Caroline Flint L
David Davies C

MPs definitely against us, ie 'no debate'
Clive Lewis L
Angela Rayner L
Chris Bryant L
Angela Eagle L
Maria Eagle L
Rosie Duffield L
Wes Streeting L

[Ekphrasis]

The women I know who love JC are unlikely to loose their support for him, despite being against self id, after reading such an article. They are utterly passionate about him. They would see the point in staying and fighting.

I'd never especially liked him due to Brexit and other issues - I feel he spilt the party, or at least didn't unify (I remember Lisa Nandy trying to get him to do so and this was the crux of her resignation) possibly allowing a tide of others who support self id in? I'm not sure but it wasn't good for labour imo.

I don't usually vote labour and am not a member but donated twice to your campaign. I actually might choose to vote labour next time if they can sort this out.

I'm personally only taking the main messages from such articles (ie self id is a concern). So I don't think you need to be as concerned. We're pretty critical readers and thinkers now (reading something you agree with in the mail and not in the guardian kinda makes you so!)

I hope you are ok

[OlennasWimple]

If you think that Corbyn simply isn't aware of what is going on in the Labour Party right now (including allowing a self-IDing transwoman to take a Women's Officer post), then either he is derelict in his duties to know about an issue that is upsetting so many of his members (bad); or he knows and does not care (badder).

[TERFousBreakdown]

@JenniferJames, I want to be able to vote Labour! I've voted Labour all my life. I've been an on-again-off-again LP member despite being an anarchist at heart - because I'm also a pragmatist.

But the way the LP is going at present, I couldn't get myself to vote for it in good conscience. The self-ID issue killed it for me!

On the upside: I'm not voting for anyone else either. At this moment, I firmly intend to spoil my ballot by drawing a big, fat dick on it in pink lipstick!

I re-iterate: I do want to be able to vote Labour. All the LP has to do is convince me that it's not throwing women under the bus!

PS: Jeremy is an over-simplistic populist; I don't appreciate his style. But this alone wouldn't stop me from voting Labour if the LP wasn't dead-set on actively discouragig me.

[GuardianLions]

Hi JJ
The right-wing press definitely got hold of all this first (apart from the Morning Star) - there is a definite theme going on in all of the reporting "the left eating itself" and I know that is the last message you wanted to send out.

But I am desperate for a Labour politician, preferably JC to strongly stand up for women and call out those engaged in the witch hunt.

The fact you haven't lost hope in the Labour party in spite of your poor treatment sends a message that there is still hope to transform the party into one we feel we can vote for.

But it all feels a bit tenuous. JC is being a bit too vague for my liking.

[TallulahWaitingInTheRain]

This is a marathon not a sprint

My view is that we need labour to sort themselves out precisely because we can't afford another conservative government and because women are not going to vote for self-id. If this is a right wing attempt to split the left (not implausible) then we need, as a matter of urgency, to point out to the left what is happening.

Look after yourself JJ

[AnotherCassandra]

At this moment, I firmly intend to spoil my ballot by drawing a big, fat dick on it in pink lipstick!

I am spoiling mine with [ #Sexnotgender ] [ XX ]

[LangCleg]

Love you, Jen and I think you are one of the bravest feminists going at the moment. You've risked a lot.

I am just about clinging on to Labour membership just now but I won't be voting for the party or campaigning for the party until it has a pro-woman agenda. Forced minor compromises on the trans self-ID on AWS issue just won't cut it. It needs a comprehensive manifesto-based set of policies that drop self-ID and strengthen EA single sex exemptions before I even consider voting Labour again. I am trying to persuade my CLP to pass an anti self-ID motion.

As for Jezza. As I've said on another thread here - there's nothing I'd like more than to believe that he isn't yet properly aware of the issues. I'm a socialist, not a centrist. I like Jezza. But there is no way in hell it's true that he doesn't know. He does know. How can he not? He's made a choice and it's an anti-woman choice. We have to be honest with ourselves about that.

The aim is to force him to recalculate the optics. Not to pretend to ourselves that he's an undercover ally in this.

Sorry. I know that's not what you want to hear.

Again - thanks for everything you have done. You are a warrior.

[MyBrilliantDisguise]

Of course this isn't a right wing attempt to split the left - the left are doing this all on their own. I've voted Labour for decades and have never dreamed of voting anything else - I'm furious that JC is making me vote for another party.

As for Angela Eagle - she's my MP - and I hate everything she stands for.

[JenniferJames]

Thank you so much all for all you've done and all you will do. Things are looking up, believe me. I have heard rumours that a number of the leaders of the big unions are against self-id but are afraid of the backlash that will happen if they come out and say it.
If a self-id rule change comes in at conference and the union block vote it down it's dead.
Even better would be an anti-self-id rule change that the unions support. Then it's dead FOREVER. If party policy opposes self-id then Corbyn cannot bring it into law when we get into government.
Honestly? I don't think he's had time to consider it in detail. This is being very vigorously pushed by Momentum, the largest and possibly most influential group on the left... . I think Corby, still thinks it's transsexuals who go through a major change and surgery.

Anyway, enough of my rambling. Take care lovely people, we are so grateful for your support. ❤️❤️❤️

[EasterRobin]

Thank you for your bravery in putting yourself forward to represent what so many of us are thinking!

Feel better soon JJ

[averylongtimeago]

As a life long labour voter, if not party member, I am worried.
Jeremy seems to be popular with younger people (old gimmer here, I can remember Harold Wilson and "the pound in your pocket ".
I grew up in Yorkshire- was a teen during the miners strike.
I was not convinced by him, I have heard these policies before during the 70's and they didn't work then.

I cannot vote Tory, I don't trust the libdems so that leaves Labour. Who are doing very little it seems about the monumental fuck up that is Brexit and now are about to throw Women’s (and I mean women, stuff that self id crap) out the window.

Politically I feel lost at the moment, my natural "home" is labour, but can I vote for a party which has Madigan as a womens officer?

[Popchyk]

"Through the worst of it now, it's settling down a bit and the debate is starting to happen".

It is. And not just in the Labour Party or on Mumsnet either. It is going far beyond all of that into ordinary people's lives, and so it should. This needs to be right out in the open with the spotlight shining right on it.

You've achieved a lot. And it has already cost you a lot. Take a back seat and allow others to use their own voices. It's already happening.

My hope is that people see it as a democratic movement of many women of different backgrounds and different political leanings (and none) coming together and speaking out against self-ID. And not a one-woman crusade, where they can write her off as a gobby Twitter warrior.

This will not be a short fight. This is going to take years. So you have to pace yourself.

[therealposieparker]

I think self styled Corbynistas are too blinkered to really understand the profound disappointment it is to find an ignorant misogynist deep at the root of any left wing politician. His lack of awareness and involvement on this issue is deeply offensive and whilst I'm not rushing off to join the other side I do not feel, with good conscience, I could vote for anyone who dismisses women so readily.

[JenniferJames]

All I'll say to those quitting the party is... we could win this. We COULD WIN THIS. Really. But you have to stay and fight, every one of you that leaves makes it harder for the rest of us. We are all responsible for what we can affect, let's not say we didn't give it our best shot.

I'm going to the #WPUK London event, btw, anyone else is, come and say hi. :-) xxx

[Rufustherenegadereindeer1]

i think Corby, still thinks it's transsexuals who go through a major change and surgery

Then i think he is an idiot who has put action before thought and research

[OliviaStabler]

It is important to remember that only a Corbyn gov't will lift women out of poverty, build homes, invest in the economy, make tuition fees free and stop invading the Middle East

Thanks for the laugh. Best joke I've heard in ages!

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

Well as someone with a Jewish family, I'll pass on voting Labour until Corbyn has gone and they deal with the bullying and anti semitism in the party.

[TERFousBreakdown]

I have heard rumours that a number of the leaders of the big unions are against self-id but are afraid of the backlash that will happen if they come out and say it.

See, that's the very issue, in a nutshell!

It's not enough for leaders to secretly hold opinions unless they're also willing to take a stand - even if it comes at a personal risk!

Make that happen and you have my vote!

Actually: help me make that happen, at a personal risk if it must be, and you've still got my vote!

[newyearsameme80]

If Corbyn does indeed think it's all about men who have had surgery etc then he's either a muppet or wilfully ignoring what women have been trying to tell him. Neither is a good look for a leader.