Spectator article: Don't fall for it people

[JenniferJames]

Comrades,

The framing of the self-id debate as 'Corbynistas vs. Mumsnet' is a deliberate tactic by the right wing propaganda machine and done to undermine Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party and paint it as hopelessly divided. We're not.

It is important to remember that only a Corbyn gov't will lift women out of poverty, build homes, invest in the economy, make tuition fees free and stop invading the Middle East. Jeremy, though he doesn't hold our position, is the only Labour MP who has not only come out and said that women are entitled to a debate and to campaign against self-id, but that we have a right to raise money to see if the Equalities Act 2010 exemptions are being misused by AWS.

Hope everyone is well. Mumsnet you are indeed mighty.

Ahhh.

I remember the good old days, where we used to be able to talk to people we disagreed with, without it turning into a death match.

Twitter is strange. How can anyone ever learn if all they do is surround themselves with people that only ever agree with them?

There are people posting things I don't like on there, but if the discussion interests me I don't block them. I never know when they may come up with something that makes me question or think.

Maybe I'm too old fashioned for this tweeting

Strike day on March 1st? Meet up in our local towns? Where would we target?

Strike on all media / social media for 24 hours. Would hit the advertisers

Good idea, followed by a march on International Women's Day, March 8

How can anyone ever learn if all they do is surround themselves with people that only ever agree with them? Like this part of the forum then.

Lib dems are also enthusiastically on board with self I'D.

Yes, I should have rtft fully before commenting! Well I suppose I'm currently in the NONE camp. We'll see how it goes.

I read the article on the Daily Mail about the breastfeeding man. I won't link but it's not hard to find. The majority of comments are horrified and revolted, and very concerned for the newborn baby who was forced to ingest who knows how many hormones (including one that had been banned for 14 years) so that his father could enjoy the fun of breastfeeding. Someone pointed out that women who have trouble with milk production do not get this level of special attention, they are just directed to the powdered formula aisle.

Jennifer James needs to take some time and decide who she is and what her aims are. She is not going to appease the trans lobby with talk about transphobic language while also displaying a "Terfragettes" banner on her page. They see that as transphobic!

Usual stuff from mr lily madigan today - trans this and trans that. Nothing specific on female health, maternity rights, CSA, child care, housing ..... the Kent ladies are forgotten about. He is to busy swanning about Bristol with his usual self promotion.

Well, it's an odd week when Lily isn't invited to the House of Commons at least once to get his picture taken rubbing noses with Angela Rayner. Obviously this leaves less time for women's issues in his constituency.

I wounder if he will be joining his constituency demonstrating outside the court on Thursday in support of assaulting women at Speakers Corner.

Sorry to ask, but I've got a couple of questions as not being from the UK. Do people there generally donate to their political party of choice? I've only ever heard of big corporations or the very rich donating. Our politicians are very rich and get huge donations from the wealthy. I've never actually heard of the general public giving up their money to politicians. What would happen to the parties in Britain if the regular public stopped donating, would they still have funds from big companies to sustain them?

I was also surprised to see a party member post on MN, does this happen often, and is there a way for the posters to verify it is them? It's great to be able to talk and debate like this forum.

I just finished reading this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3162788-Whats-it-like-being-gender-critical-in-your-workplace?
Were you all aware that girls loos are being removed from colleges? Not the loos for boys and men, just the ones for women and girls. They are being turned into 'all gender toilets', so literally for anyone...

Posted in wrong place, sorry, but still, not too off topic!

This is a really good, but terrifying, discussion/chat about what's happening with self ID, with a transwoman who accepts that he's a man and that self ID is insidious and dangerous. It is long, but well worth watching.

Well worth sending to any MP you think might listen. It might make them think twice about supporting self ID.

I'd love an explanation of what exactly it was that someone posted on Twitter that Jennifer was calling transphobia. Mostly so I can figure out her position on some of this stuff, which at the moment is unclear. What exactly is it that we're not allowed to say?

If you look at Jennifer James' original statement on the go fund me page. It's entirely consistent with the viewpoint on here.

I actually don’t entirely disagree with JJ’s tweet. Although not many, there have been some nasty comments by her supporters that IMO cross the line - mocking trans peoples’ appearance, name-calling and personal attacks. I can see why a tweet to point out that she takes a more moderate line and restating her aims might seem like a good idea - I certainly don’t want to nail my flag to the same mast as some of the twitter supporters of the fundraiser.

Jennifer - as a Labour supporter, does your support not waver when you find yourself writing that the trade unions have sympathy for our position but they are too afraid of the backlash?

I find it astonishing and depressing if not.

The unions are supposed to stand up for ordinary folk. Something has gone badly wrong when the leadership is silenced by scare tactics of the transcult.

Fair point forthelove I think the issue here is that JJ is being too cryptic and unclear, she cant be vague about this stuff, because the whole point is, that we are arguing against the TERF/transphobic label just for stating that we are worried about self ID and its dangerous implications for women. By all means she should call out Transphobia when she finds it, but linking to examples would be helpful, especially when it follows hot on the heels of her ‘mumsnet tories’ comment IYSWIM?

What was it that was said, though? That's what I'm getting at, I want to know what she thinks "transphobia" means because depending on who's saying that it can mean anything from some guy posting genuinely alarming comments of the "kill the freaks" variety to a lesbian saying she doesn't find penises sexually appealing.

Hi there

Not a first-time poster but I rarely post on MN but this thread has had me thinking a lot so please bear with me.

My main point is that if we wait for Labour to do anything about this, we'll be waiting a long time. I grew up among strong Labour supporters and trade unionists and really, they didn't give a stuff about women's rights. Yeah, they'd pay lip service, but if a woman wanted to do a man's job there was hell on. They were very traditional when it came to men's roles and women's roles - the little woman making Sunday dinner while they all went to the club for a drink and to put the world to rights (I still know young households that do this).

The only reason why anything changed was women started getting their own financial power and could start paying full union subs or supporting the party. Suddenly we were wanted. Not in any high position, mind you. That would be too much. But we could have a voice so long as it wasn't too naggy and asked for too much. I'm 55 and I've lost count of the number of times we've been told to "have faith" in men changing things for us.

Now they've got everything they want - women who think like men and have all the physical attributes of men! And they're not even shouting for equal pay or women's rights.

So the only way we can get our voice back is by how how got it in the first place: financially.

There are around 259,000 women who are Labour members. That's a potential £1million a month in subs they could lose. At the lowest rate it's still half a mill. That talks more than a hashtag.

Where is the ‘mumsnet Tories’ comment?

Being a non-Labour voter who donated money to the fundraiser, I would be a bit disappointed if these kind of assumptions were made

Where is the ‘mumsnet Tories’ comment?

On JJ Twitter.

It's here EmyRoo:

twitter.com/msjenniferjames/status/963223321587474432

I totally agree with Bigethel. Traditional Labour have never given a shit about women - it's always seen feminism as some sort of luxury 'add on' once the Glorious Revolution has been achieved.

And why the EFF is JJ going about 'sweeping aside white middle class males' for trans? Most trans ARE white middle class males!!!

I'm getting an uncomfortable feeling that the other thread about intersectionality may be a set-up and a throwing under the bus of mumsnet may be in the offing. I hope I'm wrong.