Jeremy Corbyn has a new enemy - Mumsnet

[busyboysmum]

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/jeremy-corbyn-has-a-new-enemy-mumsnet/

I’ve learned that there are some brilliant, learned and compassionate people out there, who come at this from all angles. One (purely anecdotal) observation is that the diversity of opinions within the trans-gender population is not remotely reflected in the bit of this conversation most visible at Westminster. The trans community’s opinions are not as homogenous as some reporting and discussion suggest. So here’s a tip for hacks covering this: don’t just book Paris Lees or talk about Lilly Madigan. Ask Kristina Harrison what she thinks. Or Tara Hewitt. Or lots of other people. The same goes for the ‘radical’ feminist side of this: there’s more to it than Germaine Greer. (Though for some media outlets that really should know better, having any voice from that side of the conversation at all would be an improvement.)

I’ve said it before, Jeremy wants to be a progressive person but he doesn’t stop and think whether his progressive politics could be regressive if he thought about it for more than 5 seconds.

It would be great if we lived in a world where everyone was nice and empathetic and everyone did the right thing, and no woman has to worry about sexual and non-sexual violence, but we don’t in that world. It doesn’t and probably will never exist. Jeremy needs to get in the real world and try to see the other side of the argument without dismissing people as bigots.

AnotherCassandra

That's excellent. I have no doubt that, if he does come to the web chat, Jeremy and his advisors will be reviewing it afterwards.

So it's really useful to get as much information as possible into the body of your question. For them to digest later.

Brilliantly concise and comprehensive.

Destinysdaughter

Dear God in heaven. I've never seen such megalomania drip off a screen.

You could just delete all that and replace it with

P. O. W. E. R.

Excellent article! :)

Jeremy Corbyn's ideas about women are very odd, I seem to remember that his solution to sexual violence on public transport was to shove us all into the last carriage. How this would work if any bloke who wanted to could join us I have no idea.

*No records kept of who updated their gender and when.

The destruction of the current Gender Recognition Register and apologies (and compensation) to those whose information was stored in it*

Well that's not sinister or anything, especially given that a change of gender will almost inevitably involve a change of name too. And sure, if you're already making a list of absurd demands why not ask for money too? May as well, some mug will probably give it to you in the current climate.

Owen Jones is currently having a disagreement on twitter with a Tory MP and defending the right of women-only events where they can come together to discuss issues that impact them. Has he changed his tune then or is he just being a massive hypocrite to have a pop at a Tory?

mobile.twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/963013161132744704

I do wonder whether Corbyn is thinking of the old school transexuals and just thinks things should be fair for them, not realising how much things have changed?

I think most general voters do - I certainly did until recently. I would happily have agreed at that point to a clause saying any transwomen could join my WI or wherever.

Now I see that once you do that and say trans women are women #nodebate , all the obvious biological reasons for women's protections and supports are already obscured from the debate.

Someone pointed out that no one in their right mind would come out with a proposal for an act in parliament for any man to be able to be treated as a woman in law.

But that's what self-ID is basically. As long as you believe all transwomen are women you can't see it. If all transwomen are women, if you accept that premise then of course you will believe they should have the legal protections and rights of women.

But how do we know which men who say they are trans are trans? Or have positive motivations? If we can't answer that question then we ARE basically passing proposal for an act in parliament for any man to be able to be treated as a woman in law.

I used to live in Cairo, where some Tube carriages were female-only. There were many problems with that system, primarily: men went into the carriages and had a field day before they could be thrown out (the police weren't around so there was no real penalty) and women who did not travel in women-only carriages were seen as fair game for sexual assault / harassment.

Great article. At last something I can FB share without it being filed under 'shouty wimmin'.

Rosie I really sympathise. Yes there are many other pressing issues.

However it will take decades for women to regain the ground lost to self ID if we can no longer use the word 'woman' to refer to the female reproductive sex.

There are immediate risks to women and girls' safety if any old man can legally call himself a woman with minimal effort. For me, this is an overriding concern.

We're going down a dangerous road by legally enforcing the spiritual belief that people change reproductive sex by signing a piece of paper. Corbyn should know better.

The saddest thing is that legal self ID is unnecessary. The law (rightly) doesn't care about what people call themselves, how they dress, how they cosmetically alter their appearance and who they marry.

It already protects those dysphoric transsexual people for whom legal transition is the only treatment option left.

Labour. Pull yourself together on this issue please. I can't vote for self ID.

Absolutely this:

*Great article. At last something I can FB share without it being filed under 'shouty wimmin'.

Rosie I really sympathise. Yes there are many other pressing issues.

However it will take decades for women to regain the ground lost to self ID if we can no longer use the word 'woman' to refer to the female reproductive sex.

There are immediate risks to women and girls' safety if any old man can legally call himself a woman with minimal effort. For me, this is an overriding concern.

We're going down a dangerous road by legally enforcing the spiritual belief that people change reproductive sex by signing a piece of paper. Corbyn should know better.

The saddest thing is that legal self ID is unnecessary. The law (rightly) doesn't care about what people call themselves, how they dress, how they cosmetically alter their appearance and who they marry.

It already protects those dysphoric transsexual people for whom legal transition is the only treatment option left.

Labour. Pull yourself together on this issue please. I can't vote for self ID.*

Everyone in the WI and beyond knows that the interests of someone with a penis are different to those of someone with female biology.

I do wonder whether Corbyn is thinking of the old school transexuals and just thinks things should be fair for them, not realising how much things have changed?

I don't think so or he would have put a stop to the Lily Madigan nonsense.

RE Owen Jones, he thinks that Paris Lees is a woman, so...

Thank you again, James Kirkup. I hope this recent spate of articles makes other journalists speak up. There's an absolute bucket-load of comedy in this self-id stuff. If I were a satirical writer, I'd milk this for all it was worth.

Botanistinhiding at 12.46 about Corbyn making policy on the hoof based on twitter , refusing to engage in debate and then complaining that the media hates / makes it up. FAKE NEWS VERY BAD!!! Remind you of anyone?

I wish we could go back to grown up politics with debates and using evidence and science to make decisions.I’m hoping sanity will return. On another thread about a child having puberty blockers at 14 it’s strange
16 -age of sexual consent
17- can learn to drive
18 - can vote
18 - can get a credit card
14 - can have puberty blockers for which no scientific study into their long term effects have been undertaken.

All of them can be reversed or stopped with minimal side effects but one. Fucking ridiculous.

Brillant quote.

To quote the formidably eloquent Kristina Harrison, accepting that people can define their own gender without external check or scrutiny is ‘to assert that subjective and unverifiable will subordinate objective biological sex as the pre-eminent cultural-legal category.’

I'm as over Corbyn as I am over pretending that a man can be a woman simply because he says so. Particularly because of the trans-hypocrisy which states men who say they are women may have access to all women's spaces, and receive tea and sympathy because nasty lesbians won't have sex with them when they are informed they must, yet women who say they are men may not have access to men's spaces and men's rights.

I had high hopes for JC, even re-registered as a member of the Labour party to vote for him, but in several ways he has shown he would not be a good PM.

I don't know who to support now. I will only support a political party which has consideration for biological women. That is becoming the main priority for me.

Yes, and why has no one really interviewed transwomen who don't support self-Id? Or have I missed it? Only seen one column in the Times by someone.

Have any lawyers/law professors spoken about self identification and the issues that can arise? Surely they must have been consulted?

100% agree pete - evidence, science, expert testimony - where has it all gone?

Blimey - this didn't even go through any dreaded 'focus groups' of actual labour voters did it? As a policy it has obvious drawbacks.

I'm appalled about the idea 14 year olds could get puberty blockers.

Children as young as 12 are being given puberty blockers:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/8454002/Puberty-blocker-for-children-considering-sex-change.html

I'm appalled about the idea 14 year olds could get puberty blockers.

It's not age specific, it's puberty specific.

It stops puberty. So could be 10-14 for girls and 12-16 for boys.

Well that's not sinister or anything, especially given that a change of gender will almost inevitably involve a change of name too. And sure, if you're already making a list of absurd demands why not ask for money too?

Asking for money is the standard thing - I saw a series of tweets just now, calling on our cis-allies to support them - 2nd, 3rd, and 4th on the list were 'give money to trans people', 'give money to trans orgs', and 'why didn't you just give money to trans people you don't know in step 2 - you should reconsider that'