19 year old DD tells me ALL boys want to throttle.

[Spidermama]

I've just been left feeling really angry and powerless. DD tells me pretty much all boys 'even nice ones' like to put their hands around girl's throats semi strangling them as part of sex. She's told me other horrible things about what girls her age are fully expected to put up with.
She says the boys get it from porn and there's nothing unusual about it.

I and I'm sure many of us women, have put up with things during sex that we've not really liked just to get it over with. But this is getting ridiculous! It makes me so sad to think of all these young women having to put up with these levels of violence and hatred in something which is supposed to be enjoyable for them.

What can she do. I know how hard it is to stop things being done to you mid act.

People pay, or borrow, $50k/annum to attend the likes of Harvard, an Ivy League university nearly 400-years-old, to be fed bunkum like this? That's more than annoying.

I’ve never seen what’s so empowering about showing men your tits for money. I think I was too working class when I was younger for it to be classy and lifestyle choice a la belle du jour. I would have been more Band of Gold (90s tv show about prostitutes).

I’m aghast that young women have the ‘sex industry’ promoted to them as a wonderful career by universities - the man milk round perhaps? I’ve just finished a masters but no ones approached me with a web cam...

'Eldest DD is a GP and anal tearing, infections, injuries are becoming more and more commonplace in younger women, teenagers even. The worst cases are faecal incontinence.

Rape apologists and pro- porn'ers, have a think about that for a minute.'

Not at all surprising, sadly.

I don't know if I'm anti-porn or not. I know I don't like what most people consider to be porn, but I do like eroticism. One person's eroticism might be another's porn.
I sometimes read erotic stories on a very popular site that (sadly) has some seriously questionable storylines too. Do I boycott that site because of those other stories, or boycott a book publisher because they have some BDSM fiction I might not agree with? It certainly seems quite difficult to know quite who and what to boycott at times.

If that's being pro-porn in some people's eyes, then so be it, but I don't feel responsible for any increase in anal injuries. I consider that the domain of those engaging in anal sex, or pressuring women to do so. It's not my cup of tea in this instance.

Brilliant filmed pornography (where real people are on camera, often being raped or coerced - the injuries are real, the violence is real) is a very different thing from written erotica.

Yes, written erotica can have very questionable elements to it (there was a thread about 6 months back where some of us discussed it - some of the "tags" on AO3 are eye-watering), though in terms of regressive attitudes towards women's roles so does Mills and Boon, the average Bond film, basically upwards of 50% of popular culture, which eroticises a woman=submissive, man=dominant shit fest. It still isn't anything like people jerking off to films of real people getting raped and assaulted. Not even close.

That's the thing about film - they are real people having these things done to them.

I think one of the problems that men are faced with, is that were frequently made aware of the abusive aspects of pornography and all is not as it may seem in a pornographic image / movie. But at the same time, we are also bombarded with other views telling us 'yes, exploitation can exist but there are plenty of women who are 'happy' to enjoy being part of pornography'. That's a message that happens to suit men very well, because for most men, that's what they want to believe (with good intention). They WANT to believe it's done willingly.

When it comes to the more extreme sexual acts in pornography, it becomes almost impossible to believe it's consensual (to anybody with a brain), but for what is now deemed 'mainstream' (watching someone masturbate, or have vanilla sex) it is so convincing that everybody behind the scenes is rosy and all parties are perfectly consenting. That is where I think pornography is so insidious. It is evidently so convincing that women want anal sex, or women want to give oral sex - and if they don't, then either there is something wrong with the woman, or there is something wrong with you...

The 'lie' is so damn convincing, it's making people truly believe their own sex lives are atypical, and all the seemingly nice guides on how to improve your lovemaking are actually just reinforcing the notion that your love life needs improvement (ergo, it's not up to scratch).

if 10 women here say they do not like anal sex (just using that as an example), and 1 woman says she does enjoy it. Most men will focus on the one that does - because the other 10 are offering him an inconvenient truth he doesn't want to believe in, whilst the other is offering him a simple confirmation that actually, it's ok. That's also another reason why pornography does so much damage, because most men won't be sleeping with countless women. So for (say) 10 women in their real life who weren't keen on something, they can find 100 on a pornsite that look as though they are. That then convinces the men that they've just met the wrong 10 women in their personal lives.

It sounds pitiful when presented like that, and perhaps it is, but it's a real issue pitiful or not, and unless something can break this cycle of pornworld -> man's imagination -> woman who doesnt conform -> back to pornworld, then things will only get worse.

I hasten to add, I also believe young women are now getting sucked into the porn trap too. Because they are being told by men that they are not adequate, and thus young women are looking at porn to discover what they need to do to be adequate.

yes.

Agree, men want to believe it

Can't say I feel much sympathy for men who, confronted by women who they know saying that they don't like a thing, choose to believe that it's just those women who're defective and other, superior women who want what the man wants them to want are out there waiting to be found.

we are also bombarded with other views telling us 'yes, exploitation can exist but there are plenty of women who are 'happy' to enjoy being part of pornography'.
What are the odds that the porn you watch is voluntary when you know that 98% of the women in porn want out? When you listen, if you listen, to women who were chewed up and spit out by the porn industry?
You choose to believe the ones who tell you what you want to hear.

The treatment centers that used to address cigarette and alcohol addiction now also address porn addiction because it is destroying people's lives.

What are the odds that the porn you watch is voluntary when you know that 98% of the women in porn want out? When you listen, if you listen, to women who were chewed up and spit out by the porn industry?
You choose to believe the ones who tell you what you want to hear.

I think that varies with the category of porn they are watching. The more extreme the porn, the less likely / convincing any argument that it's entirely consenting. The milder the porn, the believable it becomes (that it's voluntary).
As you've said, of course, people are far more likely to want to believe in something that seems to uphold their belief. I think most men don't like the idea of it being coerced, so are far more receptive to the palatable idea of women wanting to do it.
There are those of course who actually get off on the idea of a women being forced, but that's another kettle of fish entirely.

The porn industry itself puts considerable effort into perpetuating the notion that coercion is a thing of the past, or limited to Eastern European backwaters hidden on the darkweb, and completely fails to acknowledge that there are many forms of coercion.

As things stand right now, the voices of those previously abused by the porn industry largely go unheard because they have limited resources with which to be heard. Those still operating in the industry and promoting it have significant funds with which to be heard, and thus their voice of 'we love doing it' message is delivered loud and frequently.

The every day women in men's lives who may be able to deliver the message, still face the accusation of 'well, you've never actually been a porn star / webcam girl, so just because you don't like it, doesn't mean they don't'.

What gives?

Can't say I feel much sympathy for men who, confronted by women who they know saying that they don't like a thing, choose to believe that it's just those women who're defective and other, superior women who want what the man wants them to want are out there waiting to be found.

I have no sympathy either, but there has to be a reason/s why it's happening. Understanding the causes might be a first step to trying to break the cycle somehow. I don't want to be resigned to giving up hope and thinking 'it can never change, it's just how men are and always will be'. Perhaps that is the reality, but I'll keep believing that at least some men can avoid or escape the trap. If only 10 men can be persuaded, it's 10 better than none.

Because of sexism. That's the reason. I mean obviously the sex industry will encourage the delusion because it's good for business, but it wouldn't work if men weren't prepared to write off the opinions of the women in their lives.

Quote of the Day: Take the penetrative sex out of porn and you end up with men casually beating women

If you have a smart phone, which all young men do, the majority of them access porn. It's naive to think otherwise.

I've spoke to my DS20 about this, how unrealistic porn is. Hope he takes it onboard.

There was a programme on TV a while back, asking young men if a woman was not "totally shaved", would they have a relationship with the girl. I can't remember percentages, but the vast majority said it would be a deal breaker.

It's really sad.

I just dont think reasonable men are immediately turned into raving rapist monsters when confronted with some violent pornography. I dont care how 'saturated' their upbringing was. It doesnt mean they are all suddenly without any capacity to consider

I disagree, because I've lived with someone who became pornsick and some friends have had a similar experience. Years back I was tolerant of the odd nude magazine. Over time the magazine became a stack of magazines. Then became a vhs video. Then a collection of videos.

The videos turned into dvds. Then there was the internet and things really took off. External hard drives appeared, lots of them. Things were uploaded and downloaded. Things escalated and he got into bdsm, piss, shit, fisting, gangbangs and bestiality. Totally addicted.

Guess who he tried to act all this sick shit out with? Guess who was a frigid miserable bitch when I said No. Guess the effect of him watching porno where a man is touching a sleeping or drunk women? Oh and the fucking voyeurism, the peeping and attempts to record me. And the criticism of me, my body, my appearance. In intimate detail.The crude nasty porn talk constantly. Horrible dirty bastard.

It's addictive for them. It's well documented.

Terfinator
I hope you're well-rid of that.

Terfinator

Haven’t RTFT but I would agree with OPs daughter, being only a few years older. Even my lovely, kind and caring DP showed an interest in this when we first met, it was so out of character for him I was really surprised and politely declined which he completely respects. I wouldn’t find it acceptable if we weren’t having sex so why does it become okay while we are dtd?

Brilliant's position seems to be that porn use explains and renders understandable the total failure of men to consult the preferences or feelings of their actual sexual partner who is presumably attempting to communicate these but being overridden by the self-justificatory reasoning that some woman somewhere might enthusiastically consent to whatever is going forward.

If this is true then (all) porn is a direct incitement to rape and should be banned.

It's exactly that attitude that things that would be obviously unacceptable in any other context become both acceptable and beyond criticism when you add an erection that's the proble, Ickle. Why? Why is sex "just different"?

Exactly ! If the porn apologists cite the brainwashing effect of porn on themselves as an excuse for their bad behaviour then they are inadvertently making the argument for banning porn.

*Brilliant's position seems to be that porn use explains and renders understandable the total failure of men to consult the preferences or feelings of their actual sexual partner who is presumably attempting to communicate these but being overridden by the self-justificatory reasoning that some woman somewhere might enthusiastically consent to whatever is going forward.

If this is true then (all) porn is a direct incitement to rape and should be banned.*

I would say that's a largely correct interpretation of my view save the following:

• I wouldn't say it was the sole reason, but certainly a potential one
• I wouldn't agree that it's a direct incitement to rape. I believe plenty of men can reluctantly accept that their real life partner isn't going to be like their unrealistic nymphomaniac ideal, and whilst that may lead to frustration or disappointment, it doesn't necessarily turn a man into one who is prepared to ignore the need for consent. In my opinion it's much more likely to result in large numbers of porn watchers thinking they 'aren't getting enough' (sex) and that it's a result of some failing in their partner (low sex drive / unimaginative / unadventurous etc).

The psyche of a rapist is almost certainly complex and varied, and I am sure pornography is a contributing factor for many of them, I just disagree with the conclusion that ALL porno is a direct incitement. I still think men do consult their partners thoughts and feelings, but like your suggestion they are being overridden by false reasoning.

Up thread a few days ago someone asked about gay pornography & violence and I couldn't answer because it is not my research area. Well, as if by magic the expert Suzzan Blac published a comparison yesterday:
theviolenceofpornography.blogspot.co.uk/2018/02/a-comparison-between-straight-and-gay.html?zx=3af42f2d118ae3cc

I cannot content warn this website enough, the reality of porn which she exposes is distressing.

Her argument is:
' I feel the same way about young males who enter the industry.
So I am not condoning gay male pornography, I just want to show that it is shockingly different to straight pornography. Particularly in terms of the violence, hatred and sexual abuse dealt to women in pornography. Thus proving that misogyny in straight pornography is real. Not 'imagined' or 'Supposed' but an indisputable fact, which is pervasive, and entrenched, not just in our society, but in the minds of our children.

Men don't hate other men..Men hate women.'

This is how I see a typical male pattern with pornography:

1. Man starts to watch porn as a masturbatory aid.
2. Man witnesses what he believes to be normal women revealing their true sexual selves.
3. Man begins to interpret the porn world as a true reflection of the sexuality of 'liberated' women.
4. Man starts to think his partner would be happier if she too was as liberated at the women in porn.
5. Man starts to suggest trying out some of the sexual acts he's seen via porn
6. Partner exhibits reluctance to try some things, or confusion as to why they might be necessary.
7. Man starts to interpret reluctance as an inability to progress sexually, and sees it as a failing of partner, and / or a lack of desire for him.
8. Man resents partner for having a low libido / lack of imagination / lack of attraction
9. Man resorts to using more porn.
10. Go to step 7

The longer he continues in this cycle, the more videos he is watching the more women he is seeing who appear to be affirming his belief that most women are secret nymphos and that his own partner is one of the few who aren't. He's 'hard done to' and 'not understood' etc

For the majority of men, I think it just settles into a mundane routine where he feels his partner is one of the women with a low sex drive, and he uses porn to fantasise about 'normal' women.

For some, it probably creates an ever increasing rift between them and their partners, and thus results in relationship breakdowns.

For others, it may well cause a man to believe he is being denied a 'right' to a normal sex life (except his version of normal = porn). If his partner won't give it to him, he will take it anyway. This man becomes a rapist.