19 year old DD tells me ALL boys want to throttle.

[Spidermama]

I've just been left feeling really angry and powerless. DD tells me pretty much all boys 'even nice ones' like to put their hands around girl's throats semi strangling them as part of sex. She's told me other horrible things about what girls her age are fully expected to put up with.
She says the boys get it from porn and there's nothing unusual about it.

I and I'm sure many of us women, have put up with things during sex that we've not really liked just to get it over with. But this is getting ridiculous! It makes me so sad to think of all these young women having to put up with these levels of violence and hatred in something which is supposed to be enjoyable for them.

What can she do. I know how hard it is to stop things being done to you mid act.

Thank you, Tallullah..

What makes it even more depressing is that all of these men are students at a well regarded university.and they are all under 23.

Does this type of violence feature in homosexual porn ?

I have never seen any - hence genuine question.

Both boys and girls are receiving so many mixed messages. How to look, what body shape to have, what penis size to have, what breast size to have, guides in magazines on 'how to please' that seem to insist all women and men are fundamentally the same in their sexual needs.
Then we have pornography that is telling men 'women DO like this', and telling women 'if you don't like this, you're not normal'.

It's quite tragic how something so intimate and natural has become so distorted. I used to think pornography was a reflection of demand, but I now firmly believe it drives demand.

I agree with all that, but I was disputing the specific prevalence of choking.

Choking, coerced anal and aggressive ‘skull fucking’ are the three things that come up again and again in conversations with my friends who have teen girls. What they are being expected to do as first sexual experiences is so far from what my own experiences were. It makes me very sad, and very worried for my own kids

Sorry , my post wasn't clear - I mean I have never watched any gay porn, not I have never seen any violence in gay porn.
As a PP said - i agree, if my hubby and I ever split up - i think I'll happily live out my days single. I haven't 'dated' in 18 years - the expectations these days sound horrific.

This is a good talk about porn, if anyone wants to show something to their children. IT doesn't have an age recommendation on it, but older teens should be able to cope with it.

'Choking, coerced anal and aggressive ‘skull fucking’ are the three things that come up again and again in conversations with my friends who have teen girls.'

This, with a lack of foreplay for the female. There was an article posted on here featuring young men talking about their ideal sexual encounter and plenty were simply that the woman gives him deep throat oral sex and then he has anal sex with her.

I am still staggered at people (men) of my own age and their very primitive views on sex.
I think they are completely missing out on a whole world of pleasure that's lost on them simply because they can't see further than a damn blowjob. It's absolutely staggering.

It's also quite sad in the true sense of the word. To miss out on so much sensuality. I'm also afraid to say, that quite a number of women are starting to exhibit similar attitudes too.
Despite all the advancement in sexual liberation and a more open attitude to sexual activity, it seems to be becoming far more 'mechanical' and much less human.

The anal thing is definitely suddenly huge.

I think there will be a huge rise in anal cancers in the future.

There was a point about 20 - 30 years ago where masculinity itself was beginning to be associated with the capacity to please women sexually, but it all seemed to regress very quickly

Without wanting to derail: oh, what I would give to have been old enough to be sexually active at that time! This sounds positively exhilarating!

There was a point about 20 - 30 years ago where masculinity itself was beginning to be associated with the capacity to please women sexually, but it all seemed to regress very quickly

I completely agree. It was very much my experience in the late 90's (at uni) that young men worried about pleasing the woman, only took anything further if she consented. There was always a hesitation I felt. I stayed the night with guys I'd "pulled" and we basically just snogged as that's all I'd allow. And at no point ever did I feel pressure or disappointment from them - if anything I felt more respected.

It was only much later, about a year before I met Dh that a guy I was with tantrummed about me not wanting to do something. Instant red flag as far as I was concerned!

stayed the night with guys I'd "pulled" and we basically just snogged as that's all I'd allow - several of these became relationships short and long term. All respectful and consensual.

It should not be forgotten that in the 1980's AIDS campaigns were on national tv and there was general fear of casual sex. People did actually change their sexual behaviour for a long period of time.

Oldblue i had a similar experience in the early noughties.

Big lad, 10 years older than me, put his hand round my throat and squeezed. I had nothing - I froze completely and waited for it to stop. He got bored and he stopped. It was frightening, and yes I asked him to leave after - but strangulation was then rare enough that the friend I told afterwards was shocked. It wasn't a normal part of sex, at least for our age group.

Now I think on it though, I had a couple of experiences I was quite active in my day which are grim to remember. Men deciding to do stuff to me that I'd now comfortably say was violent. Then I felt unable to say as much - by being with them in the first place I felt I'd asked for it.

Anyway, this thread has more on "accidental strangulation" during sex (i.e. the murder of women) and throttling in pornography www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a2985297-Man-kills-girl-after-strangling-her-by-accident

In my 90s experiences - only one man pushed for anal, not a single man ever put his hands around my neck. There was one man who wanted me to strangle him and he was very heavily involved in the BSDM community (which, as previously mentioned, used to regard this as a high risk practice and definitely not something you did without prior discussion). "Throat fucking" was just not a thing. Now granted I was always, um, let's just say very assertive, but none of my friends ever mentioned those things being expected either, and we pretty much talked about everything.

In the event that DH and I ever broke up I'd probably stick to dating women (I'm bi) rather than have to deal with some pornsick dude who'd need retraining in the most basic aspects of how to conduct a sexual relationship.

Just as a general observation women who feel safe and free from fear are generally more likely to enjoy and engage in sex more often with higher libidos. Men are actually shooting themselves in the foot by behaving like this. Which in the long run will feed more porn use and thus we have a vicious circle.

One thing I didn’t like about Friends was the whole popularisation of the “friend zone” thing. The whole notion that a sexual relationship of some kind is the top of the pyramid of male/female interactions is reductive and unhelpful.

I have read several interesting articles on the internet of this matter recently. It's very upsetting.
My hope is at least that it is becoming more known of fact and then that will help bring an end to it.

porn is just so normalised, but the industry is so misogynistic and patriarchal and that's so damaging to all the young both girls and boys who watch it to learn about sex

Here's one of the articles www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/magazine/teenagers-learning-online-porn-literacy-sex-education.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

There was another good one about how all the media, and hospitals, and everything are focused on male pleasure and in disregard of female pain and how this filters to how. Women will. Be accepting of things hey know don't feel right to them. It's a shame I think I lost that one though I'll have a look

From roughly 1980 when I lost my virginity to 1993 when I got together with DH, no man put his hands around my throat or suggested I might enjoy it if he did. No man brought up the topic of anal sex first. I was more likely to initiate sex in the early days of dating or getting together than the bloke was - but I think everyone was waiting to see if the other person was willing more in those days because of AIDS as mentioned above.

There wasn't any internet so porn was wank mags and VHS tapes. You had to go out of your way to get it and most blokes I knew had wank mags but CBA with much else. Too much effort when you could just do actual sex instead!

The men I slept with would have died a thousand deaths if a woman said he wasn't up to scratch at sex. They almost all made a decent effort.

It saddens me beyond belief that things have got so bad for young people today.

Me too- but 10 years earlier. It is so different for my dd I could cry. Well, I do cry.

Lilymossflower That NY Times article is well worth a read. Very long but informative and hopeful.

I can't specifically object to porn / magazines / toys / books / clothing etc as I don't see that any in moderation are terrible things (with the exception of extreme examples) - but in combination it's almost as if people are looking to improve their sex lives via external means and not internal ones.

'Enhancing sex' seems to be about adding a toy, or porn, or even another person in the bedroom, and so rarely about a deeper level of intimacy. Of course you can try deeper (kinkier?) things, but does that have to be via some external means?

So when it comes to our kids, are they now believing that great sex is about great toys and ever more daring sexual acts instead of ever more intimacy? If you look at the internet, they are bombarded with suggestions that the best way to increase their sex life is via a new fuckbuddy, or a new toy etc.

You've simply never had a sex-life unless you've been spit-roasted, or gangbanged, or been tied up, or been dogging etc - that is if you believe the conventional wisdom of the modern media.

@ContemporaryPankhurst I spent a good part of the evening reading the link to the blog you posted. I thought I was a fairly clued in person, who had an awareness of what goes on in the world. Nothing prepared me for that. I've been feeling queasy and I'm now lying in bed in the middle of the night feeling tearful for the adult world that my daughter must face in a few years time. I couldn't even read the other link you posted as both my internet provider and my phone provider blocked it.

It's weird actually. I was raised in a Christian family, in an evangelical church, where sex was forbidden outside of marriage, and porn was just 100% wrong, and women's sexuality was all a bit shameful. And I remember as I grew up being horrified at all the misogyny of it. But as a forty something I can honestly say that the misogyny of that was as nothing compared with the misogyny of modern porn culture. Whilst there was definitely misogyny in my upbringing, it was very much of the 'women are precious and must be protected from the lustful instincts that are in everyone'. Now, obviously this is problematic, but for those (most people) who weren't raised this way and are horrified by it, I can't tell you how liberating it actually was to live in a world where as a teenager or young adult, sex was not expected. And the expectation was that when (married) adults had sex it would be mutually enjoyable, an act of love, and full of respect for each other. Given the choice, I'd take my background over what's being forced on teenage girls these days. And I never thought I'd say that .

Porn is basically misogyny with the veneer of benevolent sexism stripped away, so that all that's left is the seething hatred and contempt underneath.

@Lilymossflower Is thus the other article you mentioned (about female pleasure- or lack thereof)?

theweek.com/articles/749978/female-price-male-pleasure

Not about porn directly, but the cultural attitude it discusses is very relevant to this thread I think.

Have on;y begun to thread this thread but bookmarking to read later, I have a pre-school daughter but older nephews/nieces and already beginning to feel terrified at the sorts of things that seem to be the norm for their generation.