19 year old DD tells me ALL boys want to throttle.

[Spidermama]

I've just been left feeling really angry and powerless. DD tells me pretty much all boys 'even nice ones' like to put their hands around girl's throats semi strangling them as part of sex. She's told me other horrible things about what girls her age are fully expected to put up with.
She says the boys get it from porn and there's nothing unusual about it.

I and I'm sure many of us women, have put up with things during sex that we've not really liked just to get it over with. But this is getting ridiculous! It makes me so sad to think of all these young women having to put up with these levels of violence and hatred in something which is supposed to be enjoyable for them.

What can she do. I know how hard it is to stop things being done to you mid act.

Goodness me. This is frightening. I thought it was a Micheal hutchence thing, quite unusual tastes, not the norm.
From porn, one assumes.
How worrying.

This is so fucking depressing!

Despite having been raised by a passionate 2nd wave feminist, I can honestly say that it wasn't until I hit my 30s that I developed the self-confidence to tell men to fuck off if they made me uncomfortable. I know from many conversations with other women that I am by no means atypical in this.

Of course, the boys I had my early sexual experiences with were nowhere near as steeped in this sort of porny internet culture as teens are nowadays. In my days, the issue tended to revolve around being pressured into having any sex at all.

I'm personally fine with every sort of kink and fetish and sexual act so long as all participants are enthusiastically and informedly consenting to whatever is going down and are fully capable of doing so freely. Well, almost every - one notable exception comes to mind ...

The issue is, of course, that freely given consent is a really tricky affair within a context in which there exists an inherent power imbalance between the sexes (pre-supposing heterosexuality here for a moment) and where the majority of young people's notions about sex is informed not so much by education and exploration but by online content continually escalating in order to compete for views.

I don't have the answers to this one at all. The goal has clearly got to be to a) get young people to a realistic understanding of sex while b) empowering young women, in particular, to reach that tipping point of self-confidence much earlier in life. How exactly we're meant to go about this, though: no bloody clue!

I’ve never met any guy who has done this and none of my friends have either and I’m in roughly the same generation.

My friends range from my age (40 ish) up and down. Those my age in first marriages have generally not experienced this as when I was in my twenties the sexual climate was rather different. No man has ever tried this with me and I certainly had plenty of in in my uni days. There was far less predatory behaviour and more emphasis on masculinity pleasing big partners.
As for unasked for choking. Fucking hell. They’d have had a blunt end to any sexual congress if they did and assault charges filed. Just because I’ve not experienced it personally doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Two main groups of friends have experienced this;

1. Women I know getting back out into dating after divorce (or sadly widowhood) report that a majority of men they meet ‘require’ full defoliation and are far more entitled sexually than when they were initially dating 10-20-30 years back. They find the emphasis has shifted from making each other feel good to using the woman. No pubes allowed - the adult female body must be hairless and childlike and no threat to the man.

1. Friends with teenage kids - almost all of them have experienced their kids Male and female being exposed to online, quite extreme porn. Friends with teen girls have been quite disturbed at what boys ‘expect’ these days. Teen girls are bombarded with requests for explicit pictures which are then used to shame and manipulate them. This is seen as normal.

It absolutely is an issue. It’s a regression back to the days of women being objects for male pleasure.

Good sex is about mutual pleasure, not using one partner as a masturbatory aid. Something has gone horribly wrong.

Big partners? Both! Both partners!

Sex was supposed to make both of you feel good. What on Earth happened to that?

As soon as a child watches or is shown porn on a tablet or smart phone they have been abused.

My first bf (we were both 16) was interested in bondage etc and I went along with it despite being very uncomfortable with it as he made me believe it was normal and insinuated I was frigid or unusual not to like it. This was in the 90s. His dad had a video porn stash that I'm sure he watched too. His desire for treating me like shit did not come from his own mind. He learnt it from somewhere. It was a very emotionally damaging relationship for both of us I think.

So these young children accessing such porn will definitely have an affect on what they consider normal and expected and they'll all be damaged as a result because it's perpetuating abuse.

True, I’m 22 and have experienced this.

I mean , I like it tbh, but if another woman doesn’t like it it is out of order for a man to do it without asking her preferences.

For reference no man has ever done it without asking whether I would like to / wether it is acceptable to me.

thAT is so depressing.

I’m not disputing there are some ’boys’ / men who behave this way. I’m disputing the dangerous and outright lie that ‘all boys’ behave like this

Also catcalling in the streets has started much younger. Younger girls targeted and younger boys doing the shouting etc.

I would be extremely surprised if this is a commonplace occurrence in youngsters.
I don't think it's a commonplace theme in adults let along younger people. Yes, some people find it appealing, but I firmly believe it's a minority liking.

Is this perhaps a crazy specific to the peer group she is in?
I have absolutely no doubt that many girls are expected to perform acts they are uncomfortable with, and possibly some boys also feel they have to conform to what they believe is 'manly' sexual behaviour, but the throttling seems far too niche.

It's not about all boys. It's about a growing number of younger boys and girls watching porn and then thinking it's normal when actually it's abusive.

Thanks for clarifying Backenette despite the harms of pornography and pornhub being one of my mastermind specialist subjects I thought I was going to have to google that. I thought you were talking about a fetish or it was something akin to big spoon & little spoon lol

Nixen I suggest you look at the abstract of that British Medical Journal article I linked to upthread (it's open access). It may not be all of them (I damn well hope it isn't because I am fighting tooth and nail to make sure my DS doesn't grow up like this), but on the evidence to date (carefully collected epidemiological evidence, with randomised samples) it is way more than half of young men.

I suspect the prevalence you personally encounter will come down to the circles you have the good or bad fortune to mix in. People form friendship groups with like-minded people, so I wouldn't be surprised if, within schools and colleges, there were friendship groups of boys where most of the individuals were nice, respectful men, and other friendship groups where the male bonding was more a case of a group of shits clustering together and congealing, as it were.

Well it depends on what they are being exposed to. If the trend is more violent porn then they'll think violence in sex is a norm. Is there any stats on growing violence in porn?

I would be extremely surprised if this is a commonplace occurrence in youngsters.

I know it sounds extreme and unthinkable, but literally everyone I know with teen kids has talked about this to me/friends.
Smartphones, tablets, internet access. There’s a world of free to access porn and the vast bulk of it is abuse scenarios. It really is an issue. Schoolteachers I know also confirm this - they’re seeing kids watching porn at school and dealing with the aftermath of naked-pic based bullying and manipulation. It’s disturbing stuff.

I've been shocked recently about how normal it is for young children to access it. It needs to be highlighted nationally and dealt with in schools and by parents because it is definitely happening that 10 year olds are watching porn and that makes me feel sick tbh.

As in primary aged kids. We're sticking or heads in the sand nationally.

My dd is 22 and I am uniformly depressed by the men she has encountered so far. She is perhaps unluckier than most because she has actually been the victim of physical violence, but apart from that, most seem to want sex on a first date, expect complete hairlessness and are not interested in any sort of emotional connection. Ironically, the only one who did was the one who hit her.....

I would be extremely surprised if this is a commonplace occurrence in youngsters.

Browse any porn platform. Conservative guess? At least half the videos on the front page will contain at least one of slapping/choking/anal/throat fucking.

I’m not disputing there are some ’boys’ / men who behave this way. I’m disputing the dangerous and outright lie that ‘all boys’ behave like this

This coming from the OP's daughter you may have to assume certain in-group dynamics among her peers. This is not at all atypical - especially not for teens! Neither is a little observation bias on the part of the speaker.

My 17-year-old self would not have been lying by saying 'all the kids in my year are anarchists'. Some (such as myself) may have been all in whereas others were merely tagging along and not willing to expose themselves to ridicule, seeing as being an anarchist was kind of the done thing among the in-crowd. As part of the Bakunin-on-the-nightstand crowd, it wouldn't have occurred to me to question their convictions at the time - and, in all fairness, they did all declare themselves anarchists!

Long story short: there is no reason at all to believe the OP's daughter is either exaggerating or lying.

Jesus Bertrand for your dd

I wish kids and plenty of adults had the brain capacity to realise that intense sexual experiences don't have to be about what is done physically.
Maybe if they read more erotic literature and watched less porn they might start to get a grasp of other aspects of intensity.

I know some will find it offensive, but surely it's better they appreciate more creative ways to enjoy sex than just doing it 'harder' 'faster' or 'more aggressively'.

I know it sounds extreme and unthinkable, but literally everyone I know with teen kids has talked about this to me/friends.
Smartphones, tablets, internet access. There’s a world of free to access porn and the vast bulk of it is abuse scenarios. It really is an issue. Schoolteachers I know also confirm this - they’re seeing kids watching porn at school and dealing with the aftermath of naked-pic based bullying and manipulation. It’s disturbing stuff.

I agree with all that, but I was disputing the specific prevalence of choking. I'm sure some will want to try it, but I think it's a minority. I have zero evidence for my assertion though.

What can we do?

We can respond to the current DofE consultation on sex ed and make clear that schools need to tackle head on that porn is not about normal, healthy sexual relationships: here

(I know the changes will apply to England only, but it's at least a positive thing that we can all do)

Sorry OP to hear thus is your dd's experience. I'm still seriously pissed off that the internet and smartphones have been in most people's homes for 2'decades and a decade respectively and only now the government are gathering evidence to update sex education. A generations potentially harmed by no expert counterance to easy acces to violent porn by children and teens.

There was a point about 20 - 30 years ago where masculinity itself was beginning to be associated with the capacity to please women sexually, but it all seemed to regress very quickly

That's my perception also. Coming of age in the very early 90s, we girls seemed to call the shots and popular culture backed up the idea that men gained kudos from sexually pleasing their partner.

Rewatching Friends recently, there is lots to cringe over but the 3 women are vocal about what they want and there's the scene where Chandler asks Monica for tips and she draws out 7 erogenous zones and goes through them. And later Chandler's girlfriend hugs her with thanks.

I have recently thought about the contrast between what my dd reads and watches, which mostly depicts young love and relatiobships as romantic and consensual and what her male peers are more likely consuming. I feel like she's being set up for a shock. If only I could guarantee her first relationship were with the son of a radical feminist....