Can you all just lay off trans people

[cjferg]

There is a difference between sex and gender. Some people's align, other people's don't. Some people are biologically female, and their gender doesn't match that and vies versa. Some people don't have a gender. Why do you care so much?

One of my best friends in school was biologically a female. When he 'came out' to me as trans and explained how he had never felt comfortable in his body all I thought (and anyone who knew him) was that I wasn't surprised and that it made a lot of sense and we all got on with our lives. This was about age 17 and he said he had known this since he was a kid (not saying that any kid who says they want to should be able to willy nilly block their hormones, etc, btw)
It wasn't just about 'presenting as a male'. He was actually a male in a female body.
Yes, when he started presenting as male he felt a lot better. I remember he didn't want to go to our prom because of all the dressing up, etc. until we suggested he wear a tux, and it was amazing to see him so comfortable.
But still he hated having tits and having to wear a binder (can be done safely if you get a proper binder and don't just use bandages or w/e so don't even start)
It wasn't enough to just stuff the front of the trousers.
I repeat, he was a man trapped in a woman's body. Not just a cross dressing woman, not just in an experimental phase.

I have another friend who is biologically a female but they don't have a gender. They are known as 'they' not 'he'or 'she' and knowing them you would in no way think that they are either male or female, again not just about looking a certain way.

I also see a lot of people on here ranting about trans people and they literally only care about transwomen. Genuinely, what has happend to you that you feel so threatened at the thought of someone with a penis being the same gender as you?

Stop ranting about how men are going to use it as an excuse to perv on your kid in a changing room. I'd bet quite a lot that more women will perv on your kid in a changing room than men pretending to be trans will.

Gender is evolving all the time there are no definitive rules to being a man or a woman.

For every thing that you think being a woman is, there will be a woman who disagrees with you.
You say that being a woman means having a uterus - does that make people who've had theirs removed for medical reasons not women?

If being a woman means the ability to have babies then does that mean infertile women aren't women?

If you think being a man is the ability to grow facial hair does that mean that men who can't aren't men?

I read about a woman who had poly cystic ovaries and had a luxurious, thick beard and moustache as a result. Does that mean she is a man or less of a woman? Or should she have continued to try and shave and wax it off and be ashamed of it rather than accept herself the way she was and rock the beard?

Seriously, we've come a long way from being a woman meaning you're your husband's property and having to squirt out babies and clean your whole life. Why are you so determined to go backwards?

Stop using the teeny possibility of a man pretending to be trans to invade women's spaces as a vehicle for your hatred and open your mind enough to at least try and understand the issue, because it might be your kid. It might be your dad. It might be your bff 4eva. If that were the case would you ostracise them from your life and declare them a fraud, or have a little empathy and try and support them through something potentially life changing.

drops mic

unless they have had periods, suffered period pains, sore tits, had smear tests and everything else that life throws at women etc - then how on earth can they ever truly identity and empathise with what it is really like to be a woman?

Does it matter? Can you only identify as a woman if you have period pains and have suffered sore tits? If so, there must be an awful lot of women who are feeling pretty damn confused.

OP, you’re a transphobic terf saying small kids shouldn’t be allowed to take hormones. Of course they should be allowed, why should they have to suffer for years when they’ve just been born in the wrong body?

Or on the other hand perhaps we could tell people of both sexes that it’s ok not to conform to gender norms. Be an individual.
That’s what I’d like to see more promotion of. I have yet to find a TIM who can explain why they feel like a woman. What does a woman feel like? I’m a woman, I know what I feel like. I don’t know what other women feel like. I certainly don’t know what men feel like. So why the narrow minded putting people in boxes?

If someone still insists on changing gender then fine, as long as there’s a proper process. I disagree with the self ID aspect and to be honest I don’t think that self indentification will do “proper” trans people any favours and they ought to be up in arms with it same as any women. There will be perverts who aren’t trans at all but will in a day to day basis decide to say they are in order to harass and intimidate women, to get a kick out of it. Please note, these are not trans people.

OP what do you think about the men who say they’re now women and dress in a “feminine” manner but are obviously male. Have had no surgery. They say that female lesbians should have sex with them. Why should a lesbian have sex with someone with a penis? They argue their penis is female, but if I was a lesbian I wouldn’t want a cock stuck in me whether it was female or not. And lesbians are being screamed at for being TERFS for not agreeing to this. It’s a blatant case of women shut up, do as you’re told, don’t dare argue, don’t think, don’t speak up, have sex with who you’re told to.

And sadly there’s a lot of fuckwit hand maidens who seem to think this is all fantastic. This isn’t progress. It’s a majorly backwards step towards further oppressing women.

@MoseShrute
What is the purpose of this consultation? What are the trans identifying people hoping to gain? I’m assuming this is adults.

Sorry unless they have had periods, suffered period pains, sore tits, had smear tests and everything else that life throws at women etc - then how on earth can they ever truly identity and empathise with what it is really like to be a woman?

They don't. They're talking about 'subscribed femininity' whereby women are demure, wear high heels and dresses and makeup and look pretty.

Apparently, we now have to not talk about our actual biological reality because some men feel like being feminine.

Feminists never had a problem with men being feminine, or women being masculine. But start shouting at us that they are real women, telling us we are cis, silencing us, being violent to us - and we'll have something to say.

GnotherGnu menstruation, dysmenorrhoea, amenorrhoea, hysterectomy and menopause are all female experiences. Not all women have experienced all of these but no man has experienced any of them. It's not a question of 'identifying as' a woman, but of being a woman.

Are we allowing ourselves to be bullied and intimidated by trans?

I think we need to stand up for ourselves or, To quote SwimEngland, we may end up having to be 're-educated'.

Hey thegoals, I'm sorry I seem evasive - I can see why my darting around these threads might seem this way. Truth is I don't want to get sucked into debating any single issue too heavily without having thought through my whole position as it's all relatively new to me. I'm working on it though, I'm just looking for a gap in the schedule

I understand that. I read ack my comment and realised it sounded a bit snarky. It was not supposed to, believe it or not that was a compliment, or an attempt at one. I have never actually seen anyone stick around rather than just yelling 'transphobes' or something so even though you do come across evasive, I am glad you do post on this from 'the other side' without just calling us all bigots, if that makes sense. I think you can actually see the issues with it all, but are wanting to think it all through properly in your head to try to come to some kind of compromise? I do admire that in a way, but I have been there and failed. I started from a total 'trans cheerleader' position. It felt wrong to be discussing the abuse that these law changes would allow, and also felt wrong to acknowledge that transwomen are infact male. But then I found out about most transwomen keeping their dicks, and the female penis, cotton ceiling, saw how transactivists behaved, realised that they sounded exactly like MRAs, and it went downhill from there. I read a lot of Miranda Yardleys work while trying to understand, and it made so much sense, then i found out that Miranda faces daily abuse from activists..and though, well why?! I did still try to find compromise mind, but the only compromise that is available has been rejected. I am also quite sad for transsexual people, who were just going about their lives quietly until these ridiculous 'transgender' people burst onto the scene and started making extremely unreasonable demands. I do think you are still at the 'there has to be a way to sort this out' stage, which will pass the more you look into it and think about it I reckon. But yeah, I do understand not committing one way or the other.

Sorry that went into much longer than I thought it would I cannot half ramble on.

Basically, I really wish that more people who are either 'pro-trans rights' (I hate that term, as feminists are not 'anti-trans rights to begin with) or undecided, would actually stick around and debate. Rather than plopping a bunch of goady shit (of which, a bit of it is considered transphobic in itself according to todays trans-narrative) like the OP, and running away.

Are we allowing ourselves to be bullied and intimidated by trans?

I'm not allowing it.

Many hundreds of thousands of women are not allowing either.

Elendon I am a very vocal radical feminist

I have been described as trans exclusionary many times. That's ok by me. The people I want to "exclude" are the ones making the biggest noise about being included in female spaces and reacting in typical misogynistic style when they don't get their own way

I am inclusive of people who want to live as a woman. Let them be. I will even welcome them into some female spaces if they respect them and use the pronouns they wish. If I slip up, I don't expect to get death threats and abused.

If women have to suffer because of it, I say no. But the folk I know abhor that and always have.

DN4GeekinDerby - thank you for your insight. And for highlighting the fact that you have found strong support in single sex spaces, populated, one assumes, by supposedly genocidal TERFs.

I don't want the female sex class to be reduced to performance art. I'm a big, big meanie.

I’m impressed by the people who could get past mic drop.

My insides shriveled with the cringe level of that statement.

I'm really not sure being transgender is the same thing as body dysmorphia.

MoseShrute

Although I am gender critical and of the belief that people can't be born in the wrong bodies I find your total lack of empathy as a consultant psychiatrist rather terrifying. That you would not even try and understand the reasons why someone might come to that place of believing they are in the wrong body (I am not talking about fetishists btw) and end up in your consulting rooms is very sad.

When I was anorexic and thought I was overweight it clearly wasn't true but I hope the psychiatrist I saw didn't post on forums saying it was a 'load of bollocks'. As a psychiatrist you hold a lot of power.

However strongly I feel about the erosion of women's rights, I also am aware of the abuses that psychiatric services carry out daily against vulnerable people from first hand experience.

Please don't demean people in your care, many of whom will have genuine body/gender dysmorphia.

I also think that dismissing and mocking the OP is not the way to get an argument across, however weary women are of explaining the same arguments over and over again. Though I do understand the temptation in the current climate.

I was going to say that this thread was pointless because the OP clearly hasn't been back to engage in the issues. But that post from DN4 was worth the tedious OP: yy, young people with genuine dysphoria deserve so much better than what they are currently offered by the evil "a trans kid is better than a dead kid" proponents

Yes, DN's post saved it for me too

Hey OP, why don't you pop over to twitter and type #transgirls into the search facility. You'll see who we don't want in the change room with our daughters.

⚠️ BTW, that hashtag is NSFW ⚠️

I'm really not sure being transgender is the same thing as body dysmorphia.

'Transgender' is not. That would be transsexual, sex dysphoria. Transgender people do not need to have dysphoria to be considered trnas. I am considered trans as a woman who does not like feminine stuff all of the time.

Transsexual needs to split off from 'transgender' tbh. Transgender seems to be mainly about fetishes and just..GNC people. Neither of whom need any medical treatment at all.

There is a difference between sex and gender
You had me at this.

NRTFT did someone make this joke already?

You dropped it on your toe, OP

Always love it when
Barracker has been deleted.