What is a non binary person?

[mummybear701]

Genuine question, this came up repeatedly in the Scottish consultation. All I could find is someone does not 'identify' as male or female. Transgender/transexual people are going from one gender to the other, often making physical changes whether through surgery or hormones. We've established a few don't but have stereotypical traits of the opposite gender they were assigned. They then want to be viewed as the other binary gender as far as possible, even if they never will be on biological grounds or in spaces women are at their most vulnerable.

Whatever way I could see it, is a non binary simply a man or woman who doesn't accept the stereotypes of either binary?

A tiresome bore.

Correcting him is also a crock of shit. It doesn't fucking matter.

Language evolves. Let people say gender. A lot of people don't like saying "sex" out loud. You can look down your noses and think them precious and pathetic and WRONG but the truth is, 99% of people fully understand what ordinary folk mean by gender. They mean male or female and making a huge fuss about it just makes the rest of you look bored for something to whinge about.

And yes, teens saying they're non-binary is just teens wanting to be different. You don't see goths anymore, they're all playing the gender queer game instead. Unless they turn out to be monumentally narcissistic adults (they may) they'll outgrow it.

I actually don’t really agree with the sneery ‘special’ stuff around non-binary. In all honesty, I find the non-binary position quite interesting, and the closest thing we actually have to refusing to be dictated to by gender stereotypes. As a long term gender critical feminist, I actually have a sweet spot for those who steadfastly refuses to be treated as a man or a woman. (I don’t mean the gender-fluid Travises of the world - I’m talking about the - usually women - who just stand up and say ‘nope - you don’t get to dictate who I am, how I behave, and ascribe ANYTHING to me by virtue of my sex). It’s the closest thing we have to eradicating gender stereotypes. Smashing the gender binary.
Biology is fixed and constant. I’m not fucking with biology. But I have a sneaking admiration for the genuine gender non-binary person who is standing up to society and saying ‘don’t box me’. It’s perilously close to the trans argument of ‘don’t assign my gender by my genitalia’ but with the important distinction that non-binary SHOULD be completely free from gender stereotypes, whereas trans ideology is entirely based on gender stereotypes. I see trans and non-binary as polar opposites, with non-binary being closer to a rad-fem position.
Sadly, the gender-fluid Travises are bloody co-opting non-binary as well.

The only two "non-binary" people I know are (and have always been) raging narcs. Need every conversation to centre around every dull infinitesimal aspect of their lives/personality, have zero self awareness or compassion for others. Have hair trigger "offense" alerts and generally make being in their presence feel like you've had a bit of your soul sucked out of you.

Oh and they both have blue hair.

I am lucky in that I can (and do) just avoid them like the plague but I pity the professionals that they come into contact with. I'm not sure there is a job that pays enough to indulge and endure such nonsense.

And thaaanks to whoever pointed out that women don’t have penises. I am aware of that. My point was that some of the ‘women’ I allocate rooms to, do indeed have penises. That being my problem, and all.

Non binary are people who identify as being far more superior and interesting than you shower of boring bastards

Assigned

As long as non binary accept that they won't be called for mammograms, prostrate checks etc. You know to check for shit that kills you specifically if you are a man or a woman.

You wanna dispense with biology? You live with the consequences.

Its a kid who thinks they invented not conforming and dont realise that we've all been there done it: goths, new romantics, hippies, grungers...

Honestly? An attention seeker

In my experience non-binary peeps (or enbies) are attention seekers with blue hair.

I think there is a mismatch here - the non-binary people I know are gender non-binary. Not sex non-binary. It’s a social position rather than a biological one. So health matters are not affected. I’m beginning to suspect you lot know a very different sort of non-binary than I do... (ie they are all Travis)...

When I was at uni most halls were mixed sex.

Oh damn the thread moved on.

Fish in shared rooms? beds two feet away from each other?

No. I’ve never known anyone share a room.

What I object to is the notion that women identify as women. And that it's possible to identify out of it.

Tell that to the women and children raped by Oxfam workers. Tell that to the girls who are cut. Tell that to the girls who are sold and trafficked and discarded.

I think it's an absolute fucking insult to those women's lived experiences but I'd be interested in hearing the arguments for why it's not just a really first world middle class straight person affectation.

I did at university

Shared a room I mean!

What I object to is the notion that women identify as women. And that it's possible to identify out of it.

Yes, this is the absolute crux of it for me, and is the basis for my arguement against the trans agenda.

You cant identify into womanhood. Because if you can you can identify your way out of it. And we all know that that isn't true. Or if you do believe it's true then that is incredibly insulting to all the women the world over who have faced all manner of suffering based on their biological sex and nothing else.

Ask Malala how she knows she is female.

Ask the girls in Rotherham why they didn't just 'identify' their way out of their rapes by telling their rapists that they were actually boys.

Ask the family of Molly McLaren how they feel about her 'cis privilege'. Maybe if she had told her boyfriend she was actually a man he wouldn't have stalked and murdered her.

I thought room sharing only happened in the states tbh.

Not meaning to de rail.

I shared a room at Warwick. No idea how many unis offer only single accom now. Maybe it isn’t that common...

I had blue hair for ages once (bad temporary black dye job on fair hair that really didn't work but I couldn't afford to have put right by a real hairdresser) so another reason why I must be non-binary!

I don't have a problem with non-binary. As mamaryllis says it's about non-conformity and not buying into the gender stereotype nonsense.

In my youth I was "mis-gendered" many times - but frankly, who cares? I was called "Sir" in a restaurant but I just gave the guy my order without throwing some ridiculous tantrum about how he is actually KILLING me.

I completely agree with CapnHaddock - "What I object to is the notion that women identify as women. And that it's possible to identify out of it. "

On forms which ask for gender I tick the "Other" box. Forms which ask for sex I tick "Female". Forms which ask for gender but don't offer an "Other" option I leave that question blank if possible, if not, I just toss a coin and decide that way. Hardly a good way of acquiring demographic information I would have thought.