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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

OP posts:
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LaurieFairyCake · 04/02/2018 16:43

Raven - I don’t think that trans women are only identifying as female to assault women Confused and I’ve never seen that on here

There are plenty of trans women going about their daily lives not trying to flash their penises in areas where penises aren’t allowed

speakout · 04/02/2018 16:43

presents a much more feminine image

Lost me in that one.

Fekko · 04/02/2018 16:44

Noooo. Next you’ll be telling me that Dame Edna Everidge isn’t even a Dame...

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 04/02/2018 16:44

It’s the overwhelming hatred

By men of women. Disgusting isn't it?

amber90 · 04/02/2018 16:44

Your friend is trans as is their right. I support their choice to be trans but they are not female, not a woman. Women do not have penises. It's biology. Science. Everyone cant just be what they want to be.

TinyRick · 04/02/2018 16:44

What about those of us who don't identify as 'woman'?

UpstartCrow · 04/02/2018 16:44

The history of Western men's attitudes to women is a history of woman-hatred, often with terrifying consequences

newint.org/features/1990/10/05/hate

TheShaniaTwainExperience · 04/02/2018 16:44

MasterWu

Yah. That like. TOTALLY proves that Transwomen are suddenly magically women. Because some people are so fed up of deluded creeps trolling us every 5 minutes. Sure.

DullAndOld · 04/02/2018 16:44

anyway someone that cries all day because a nasty lady on the internet said that women don't have penises, patently has a mental health problem don't they?
In your shoes Mike, I would concentrate on getting your friend the help that he so desperately needs.

stitchglitched · 04/02/2018 16:45

Are girls asked what they identify as before they are subjected to FGM and forced marriage? If a girl in Afghanistan says she now identifies as a boy will she be allowed an education? Or is there something, you know, physical, that identifies girls and forms their oppression, other than a 'belief in their heart'?

Fekko · 04/02/2018 16:46

Do I now need to actively identify as a woman then? What, daily? That sounds very tiresome.

To misquote: “I think (I am a woman) therefore I am (a woman)”

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 04/02/2018 16:46

TheRollingCrone
Nice. Just visited Rachael Irischild’s blogspot. My new favourite poet.

TheShaniaTwainExperience · 04/02/2018 16:46

They never can answer that one, stitchglitched

MrsJoshDun · 04/02/2018 16:46

Women don’t have penises.

You don’t have to “present a feminine image” to be a woman and to say so is offensive and narrow minded.

I am sick of men trying to shut women up and tell women what to think and here you are. Another one keeping the stereotype going. Well done Mike.

iamawoman · 04/02/2018 16:46

Oh right so being a raped and abused biological women by biological male it is absurd to feel vulnerable in a toilet or changing area with a male- however it is not absurd to bully women into your delusion that you are more of a women than you when you have a penis and testosterone and male muscle mass ? Honestly if you and your friend cant see what the problem is - well there is no hope for you with your cis male privelege

areyoufuckingcrazy · 04/02/2018 16:46

Ah yes. Hush now women of Mumsnet, a man somewhere is upset.

BoreOfWhabylon · 04/02/2018 16:46

BoreOfWhabylon, what about people with atypical numbers of X and Y chromosomes?

They are intersex. Because biology.

They are not 'transgender'

HTH

HarveyKietelRabbit · 04/02/2018 16:47

I absolutely respect the right for people to live their life the way they want provided they are not hurting anyone else.

I use preferred pronouns and names. It would be disrespectful in my view to do otherwise.

But a transwoman is a transwoman. A woman is a woman. A transman is a transman and a man is a man.

A person with a penis is never a woman. A person with a penis who has had hormones and surgery is still never a woman but a transwoman.

People should be treated with respect provided they are not harming others. They should be able to live their lives as they wish provided they are not trying to access housing, jobs or rights that belong to women.

It's perfectly possible to do that.

But asking the rest of the world to pretend they are a woman is ignoring biology and fact.

And the 'look more feminine than a lot of women' is the misogynistic BS only perpetrated by men. That women wear certain clothes or have their hair a certain way - the 'look' designed to appeal to men.

Transwomen have been around for centuries, when hormones and surgery started most still just got on with their lives. No-one should be a victim of abuse or discrimination and should be accepted as who they are.

I have several trans friends. Went LGBT clubbing 20 years ago and up till 5 years ago when we didn't ask or care if you were trans or a cross dresser. Happy to share make up and toilets because that was the ethos in those clubs and you wouldn't be there if you didn't like it.

Then something changed. A small group of men wanted more and more and more and more. Not just the right to be who they are and not be discriminated against or abused but to be considered exactly the same as women. And I said no. Because they're not. Even with hormones and surgery.

And now they want to be treated exactly the same even without hormones and surgery. Just because they tell me they're the same. Because that's how they 'feel'. They want womens spaces and roles.

No. The answer is no. I'm not being a bitch. I'm not transphobic. I have trans friends. I see the inside of the GI clinics and I don't like what I see. It is a pathology in itself that people with a background of science now reject it.

It is madness and I am increasingly seen as bigoted in my career when nothing could be further from the truth. But I won't pretend that something is true when it isn't.

Oswin · 04/02/2018 16:47

How dare you say imply your friend is more of a woman than Linda bellos because your friend is more feminine. What does the even mean. So your mate puts on make up a lot and you think that makes a woman. Fucking outrageous.

CigarsofthePharoahs · 04/02/2018 16:47

I don't identify as a woman.
I AM a woman. Biology, genetics and all that.
I have spent most of my life pushing against constricting stereotypes. I wear what clothes I feel comfortable in, I 'present' how I like.
Cis privilege my arse! If you call mysogeny a privilege.
Bore off.

NotAgainYoda · 04/02/2018 16:47

Ach we won't get anything sensible out of this one. He thinks Linda Bellos is man because she has short hair and wears a shirt.

NCsunday · 04/02/2018 16:47

Oh please, stop comparing it to race!!!! Asian women in women only spaces pose no threat to anyone involved.

I'm not a nasty person and don't like to hear that your friend is upset, but they need to face reality. The fact is that they have a penis, and that makes them biologically male and therefore a threat to vulnerable women.

I'm a reasonable and logical women, so I don't see how anyone can argue with that? What kind of person would want to make vulnerable women feel uncomfortable in a space where they should feel safe?

JacintaJones · 04/02/2018 16:47

Going forwards I'm going to be a man. SIGN ME UP FOR A PENIS.

Then if I ever feel like being a woman again all I'll have to do is change my mind, start wearing lipstick and grow my hair long again.

I'm sure all the men will be queing up to fuck me, irrespective of my penis. All the men know that penis' are female too Hmm

AltheaTrell · 04/02/2018 16:48

First of all the whole "feminine image" thing is bollocks. TRAs seem to think it's all about dresses, make up, heels and crying at Love Actually. Well they can fuck right off with that.

Second, how fucking DARE you, a man, use the names of the very women who fought for our protection, freedom and rights, who got us to where we are now with their blood and tears, against us.

OnTheList · 04/02/2018 16:48

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man.

Transwomen grew up as (and are still) male. To deny this is ridiculous.

How dare women speak up when their rights are being eroded. Best get back to the kitchen and be good little wenches, all nice and letting men stomp all over them.

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