Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
ButteredScone · 04/02/2018 16:39

Women don’t have penises.

And Linda Bellos is more woman than your friend could ever dream of being. Pack up your misogyny and know that you are losing the battle.

TheShaniaTwainExperience · 04/02/2018 16:39

Have you all got your TRA bingo cards out?

Mine is filling up quick

CLASSIC: ‘a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman’ 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

ellaoldie · 04/02/2018 16:39

Mike, a penis isn't just a piece of skin. It's a functional organ that has reproductive capabilities. Females don't have these, they have vaginas and uteruses. Chromosomes also differ between men and women. Defining women and men by these characteristics works for the vast majority. How do you propose to define women in a way that doesn't allow abusive men to temporarily claim to be women?

JacintaJones · 04/02/2018 16:39

If you have a penis, you are not a woman.

The End.

TheRollingCrone · 04/02/2018 16:40

He Tells Her

He tells her he's a woman too

He has a lady brain

He tells her his identity

and hers, they are the same

He tells her not to talk about

her body, it's not fair

her body is her privilege

his own, a cross to bear

He tells her that she cannot talk

or otherwise allude

to what her female body does

its nasty to exclude

He says respect diversity

except he would prefer

that she would not point out the ways

that he's diverse from her

He tells her that biology

does not impact her life

she should still bear his children

but she should call him 'wife'

He says that words must all evolve

she must learn to make do

And now that woman is his word

he's taking female too

He tells her that a woman is whatever he decides

He will not put it into words

she must not ask, he chides

He tells her he is more oppressed

than she has ever been

He says she must agree with him

or else she's being mean

She searches for the words she needs

to talk about herself

The billions who exist like her

Their lives, their rights, their health

Whatever word she chooses now

He finds a way to spin it

The conversation carries on

But she's no longer in it

R.Irischild

YippeeKiYayMelonFarmer · 04/02/2018 16:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HouseOfGoldandBones · 04/02/2018 16:40

transgendered women are not 'pretending' to be women, they are women
she is a woman with a penis

I'm new to this debate, because there is an issue at my DS's school, however, it is my understanding that "female" relates to gender, and is therefore a social construct. "Woman" is a scientific, biological fact.

Therefore, unless I am entirely misunderstanding, a person can decide to be any gender they want, or none, or indeed any inanimate object. But a person cannot decide to be any gender they want, because that is determined at birth.

Or, have I entirely misunderstood?

DullAndOld · 04/02/2018 16:40

Germaine Greer isn't a bigot she is a female intellectual who points out that people with penises aren't women.

Emperors new clothes much?

stitchglitched · 04/02/2018 16:40

Why can't you answer what your friend's biological sex is? Is it because you would have to admit they are a man?

Do you think Rachel Dolezal is black if self identity is all that matters?

reallybadidea · 04/02/2018 16:40

I don't consider any aspect of a person's body or how they present it to have anything to do with gender, merely what they truly believe in their heart.

So if your genitals or how you present has nothing at all to do with your gender, why the need to 'identify' as a woman at all? I genuinely don't get it. Why can't your friend just be a man who likes stuff that is more usually liked by women? Why do they feel the need for everyone else to agree that they're really a woman and be allowed to be in women's spaces?

HermioneWeasley · 04/02/2018 16:41

raven oh behave. Nobody has said that all TW are trying to assault women. Most of us started as allies and have plenty of experience of trans folks who want to get on quietly with their lives.

QueenLaBeefah · 04/02/2018 16:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Fekko · 04/02/2018 16:41

When is a man a woman?
When he says so!

Boom boom...

FancyNewBeesly · 04/02/2018 16:42

I'm sure I would have no issues with your friend, I have several trans friends and have no problem with their being trans and identifying however they choose / feel. I would say that most of the women I've spoken to here feel similarly.

However, I do have an issue if they insist that they are biologically women and that there is no difference, because that's patently untrue. I will fight for their right not to be discriminated against because of those differences, but I won't be threatened into pretending they do not exist.

Your friend was socialised, educated and treated as male until they began presenting as female. I am sure that their experiences as a transwoman have been incredibly difficult, but they're not the same. Saying that they are erases her and us, can you not see that?

And can you not see that women might possibly want some discussion and reassurance before any women's space is opened up to anyone who wants to access them? Can you not see that this could be a problem that we have the right to at least discuss?

And your analogy is backwards - what if I insisted on attending a group for women of colour because I am not white as I appear but actually a black woman? That's the comparison.

tinytemper66 · 04/02/2018 16:42

A woman with a penis isn't a woman sorry!

mustbemad17 · 04/02/2018 16:42

a woman is someone who identifies as a woman

I identify as a jellyfish. Does that mean i am a jellyfish? Even though i hold all the anatomical cards that suggest i am, in fact, a woman???

TopBitchoftheWitches · 04/02/2018 16:42

I'd have more interest in your friends issues if TRA's would stop calling me 'CIS' I am not a CIS woman, I am a Woman, biologically and female.

If the TRA's could stop trying to eradicate actual Women they might get more support.

QuiteLikely5 · 04/02/2018 16:42

Has the world gone mad lately or is it just me?

Confused
Minniemagoo · 04/02/2018 16:42

I am sorry your friend is upset but I think it is a Mental Health issue and help should be sought

Agree totally.
If your friend it so upset by not being considered a woman because they think they dress like one and because they can't use a womans changing room then they do need to seek mental health assistance.

They also should seek help to understand that regardless of dress, hormone therapy, surgery etc they are not and never will be a woman.

They can, however, be a transwoman, with or without surgery, live their life as such and gain a lot more acceptance and a lot less resistance when they accept this fact.

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:43

stitchglitched, why does it matter?

OP posts:
MasterWu · 04/02/2018 16:43

do fuck off and die, there's a dear

No, no hate here at all. Kind of proves a point...

TheShaniaTwainExperience · 04/02/2018 16:43

You know Mrs Doubtfire was a fictional character, right?

SophoclesTheFox · 04/02/2018 16:43

“transwomen are only identifying as women to get into female only spaces to assault them”

raven, would you be able to post a link for this? I’ve never seen anyone say that.

I’ve definitely seen “predatory males are likely to abuse accommodations made for trans people in order to facilitate their abuse of girls and women” but you do see that those two statements are quite different, surely?

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 04/02/2018 16:43

She is a woman with a penis... untouched by surgery and artificial hormones

So he's a man then.

Fairenuff · 04/02/2018 16:43

Great thread btw. You can see all the questions flooding in so fast that OP can't keep up with them

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.