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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

OP posts:
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Frequency · 08/02/2018 18:47

*Females are XX, clearly. My brain escapes me at times.

AskBasil · 08/02/2018 18:48

"She is a woman with a penis "

There is no such thing as a woman with a penis.

HTH

RatRolyPoly · 08/02/2018 18:51

I believe you wholeheartedly Bronwen, I've heard some truly disgusting things; but what difference should that make except that it explains why everyone is so defensive! Everybody in the midst of something like this needs to hear the voices of people like Jude - they're far more important than the TRAs in my eyes. She can say if she's disgusted by what she's seen on here if she likes, and I 100% support her.

AskBasil · 08/02/2018 18:52

Men telling me that a man with a penis who wears better make up and clothes and simpers better than Linda Bellos does, tells me that that man is socialised to believe that women need to perform femininity to be approved of by men.

Fuck off.

Many of us here, don't give a flying fuck if men approve of us or not. We're only nice to men like you (as opposed to the men we genuinely like) because you've got power and we're scared you'll use it against us if we don't pretend to like you.

Now fuck off again.

RatRolyPoly · 08/02/2018 18:55

it as no different to calling a gay person a 'fag' or 'dyke' or such like

Actually the word "cis" has much more in common with the word "straight" in the context of homosexuality. Before there was gay there was no need for straight, and the straight folks didn't much like it when there was! Now I'm not bringing homosexuality into it, I'm just tidying up your example. Hope you can see what I'm saying.

AskBasil · 08/02/2018 18:55

Finally (not finally) stop telling women what to think about.

Just fuck off.

Not to the near side of fuck.

To the far side.

Then fuck off further.

Taking your mansplaining with you.

Geronimoleapinglizards · 08/02/2018 18:57

I don't know what any TRAs have said about anything but undoubtedly there are people taking it too far on that side of the floor as well

Rat you're therefore entering this debate blindfolded and with one arm tied behind your back.

You have no idea who you're defending (and yes there are some lovely people with gender dysphoria who don't mean any harm to women. They seem to rather be in the minority in reality)

SteX · 08/02/2018 18:58

And just one more, fuck you @Judecarr123 , as the father of a pansexual adult DD who came out, and changed her name at 14. Guess those of us with non-straight kids pissing on your bonfire isn't exactly what you intended.

Doing a great job peeps Smile

ZBIsabella · 08/02/2018 18:58

Well said above. These threads show what women are up against as regards men. We must never give up the struggle. We can say and think what we like.

I support a free press for men and women and everyone. I am very concerned by the Government's proposals to censor even more than they already do.

Terftastic · 08/02/2018 19:00

Of course what bringonspring said was a threat - saying that companies sponsoring MN shouldn't be sponsoring them.

It wasn't that long ago that a certain men's rights organisation tried to go after the companies advertising with MN. They tried and failed, of course. Nobody took a blind bit of notice of them.

But like those mens rights activists, Bringonspring wants to silence the free debate that is allowed on here - the free debate by (mainly) women - who are being silenced elsewhere.

HairyBallTheorem · 08/02/2018 19:00

So let me get this right, Rat

Jude is allowed to say she's terrified of a bunch of middle aged women (and some younger women, and at least one transwoman) stating the self-evidently true biological fact that penises are male. On that basis she's allowed to accuse us en mass of being homophobic (despite the fact that many of us are lesbians).

But we're not allowed to be outraged by death threats, threats of "corrective" rape, threats of being doxxed, threats to our livelihoods made on line.

The phrase you're searching for is "false equivalence".

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 08/02/2018 19:01

Baffled as to how disagreeing that people can change sex means we are homophobic? Infact, many many aspects of transideoloy is actually homophobic. Including

Women must have a penis up her!

It is us that fight for womens rights to not have to shag people with penises. It is transactivists who tell lesbians they are bigoted for not shagging the bepenised. Please do keep up. You are looking a little silly.

Wintertime4 · 08/02/2018 19:03

Such a long thread!

All I see in the post is a lot of
Mememememe...

Really couldn’t be less interested.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 08/02/2018 19:03

Ah. I see the thread moved on while I was pottering around. I did not refresh Blush

Fairenuff · 08/02/2018 19:03

i mean some of the pathetic, small minded, bigoted, immature responses

Just quote the actual response that you are referring to and you'll get a reasoned reply. If you don't want to do that, fine, but don't expect to be taken seriously on this thread. Move on.

I see that the Masons have said that they will take any man regardless of race or religion

I wonder where they stand on the 'male vagina'?

RatRolyPoly · 08/02/2018 19:04

HairyBallTheorem if I was a Twitter user and you were getting shot down by a bunch of anyone for calling them out for something you and i found unacceptable I would back you to the hilt. But I'm not on Twitter. I'm on mumsnet.

WitchIwasaWitch18 · 08/02/2018 19:08

Bringon if any company were to withdraw advertising sponsorship on the grounds Mumsnet allows women (real ones) to speak out against a particularly vocal set of nasty manipulative men then I'd want to know so I could boycott them.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 08/02/2018 19:09

Women must have a penis up her!

I beg your pardon Shock

Terftastic · 08/02/2018 19:09

Funny how I've never heard the term "male vagina" being bandied about by TRAs, isn't it? It's all "suck my ladydick" (-Danielle Muscato et al) No thanks Danielle, I think I'll pass.

It's all about the penis. It's all about men.

Women do not have penises.

RatRolyPoly · 08/02/2018 19:10

Of course what bringonspring said was a threat - saying that companies sponsoring MN shouldn't be sponsoring them.

Not sure if mumsnet are reading this but I wouldn’t be a company sponsoring you with the type of comments you allow on transgender.

...questionable.

LangCleg · 08/02/2018 19:11

There are two differences between a TRA and an MRA:

a) one has an anime avatar, the other has an avatar of a frog

b) one says TERF, the other says feminazi.

Aside from these superficial, decorative differences, they are the same. Extreme transactivism is a misogynistic, homophobic men's sexual rights movements. Just like the MRA movement.

End of.

Feminists have no problems with actual transsexuals.

Also, end of.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 08/02/2018 19:15

What I said and will say again is that when someone sees a bunch of people positively gleefull at the suffering of another human being, they are not obliged to make any sense whatsoever in saying "what the holy fuck is this???". And I stand by that

Oh yay

Cos thats what a fair few women on here are talking about

Ive seen some dreadful tweets posted on here, as you say positively gleeful...and there are shedloads of women angrily saying 'what the fuck is this'

SecretHandshake · 08/02/2018 19:15

Sure, RatRolyPoly. Cis is just like straight Hmm

Disgusted by all the transphobia here
Terftastic · 08/02/2018 19:17

Absolutely, Langcleg.

Of course, both TRAs and MRAs will attack women to silence them - be it threats, doxxing, reporting to employers.

In the case of a website, like MN, they will go after sponsors/ advertisers. It's not exactly hard to understand. They want to shut us up - and in the exact words of Shon Faye - erase us.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 08/02/2018 19:17

There are a lot of people who simply don't believe it, and who say the most incredibly hurtful things.

Like? I mean, I have seen a handful of genuine transphobic posts on here in my few years. But they are always deleted quickly. Do you mean posts that go poof quickly? Or posts such as pointing out that biology is a bit pesky?

I'm not one of them btw. One day we'll be able to drop the labels and it won't matter.

I would LOVE to drop the labels. Its not us who is adding 979 new gender labels to describe random aspects of ones personality (I swear I actually do fit at least 10 of them...). I would love for male and female to mean literally nothing apart from referring to our different biology, but the issue with pretending penis people are not a danger to people with vaginas statistically..is its just blatantly not true. At all. Not even close.

Not all men are like that disclaimer as is needed on such a post. but enough are. And this destruction of womens spaces is going to make everything a hell of a lot worse too. But it will be cleverly hidden as transwomens crimes (or 'self identified' womens crimes Hmm ) are recorded as female ones. So its going to start looking a lot like we have a bunch of sexually violent women out of nowhere, when we all know its not women, its people with penises saying they are women.

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