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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

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SimonBridges · 08/02/2018 18:25

I haven’t read all the posts but I have never read such outrageous comments against transgender people than on mumsnet.

Oh and you are living a very very sheltered life if you think that we are your enemy. I suggest you read the comments on the daily mail or even twitter whenever there is a trans person on tv.

HairyBallTheorem · 08/02/2018 18:25

Jude your misplaced outrage is frankly ridiculous. The issue which "peak transed" me was the cotton ceiling -trans identifying men with penises telling lesbians they had to accept dicks up their "twats" (to use your lovely choice of word, no internalised misogyny there). There's definitely a lot of homophobia in this debate, but it's entirely confined to one side, the trans-cult side

RatRolyPoly · 08/02/2018 18:25

TellsEveryoneRealFacts your question might somehow make sense in the eyes of you and your buddies here but I'm afraid you may as well have asked me what the snow's like in the Alps this time of year. Literally OFF.THE.WALL.

What I said and will say again is that when someone sees a bunch of people positively gleefull at the suffering of another human being, they are not obliged to make any sense whatsoever in saying "what the holy fuck is this???". And I stand by that.

This isn't about the issue, this isn't a about Andi fucking Dier, this is about saying "I think this is too much" - which Jude is absolutely allowed to do.

And I for one agree with her.

thebewilderness · 08/02/2018 18:26

Every time some d00d shows up slurping from the delicious chum bucket of outrage because women are violating the #nodebate decree it is a reminder of why it is essential that we talk about what men are trying to codify into law to the detriment of the entire population but most specifically an entire generation of children.

AssassinatedBeauty · 08/02/2018 18:27

Does anyone actually think that Mike's friend is a real person and not just a figment used to berate women?

Amortentia · 08/02/2018 18:27

I think if anyone’s homophobic it’s the TRA’s. I’ve got a teen Dd who is gay and I’m genuinely worried for her judging by the number of aggressive, abusive, manipulative men who believe and try to force others to believe they can identify themselves as lesbians.

HairyBallTheorem · 08/02/2018 18:29

In a word, Assassinated no.

ladyballs · 08/02/2018 18:30

Has someone sounded the anti TERF alarm?

Cistersaredoingitforthemselves · 08/02/2018 18:31

@Judecarr123 actually my daughter is gay. She came out to me at the age of 16 - I was the first person she told.
She is in her 30s now but is she was a teen now she would've been ripe for trans. For two years at the age of three she decided she was a boy. We called her by her boy name and dressed her as she wanted.
It was a phase
She grew out of it
She worked out she was a GNC lesbian who loved football, cars and face packs. At Christmas she gets aftershave but kicks up a fuss if she doesn't get bath stuff. She likes what she likes - she doesn't give a flying fuck if it's male or female stuff.

So as a Mum of a gay child you can fuck off. If any of the virtue signaling lesbophobes came near my beautiful daughter I would have their heads off.

supersop60 · 08/02/2018 18:32

tells everyone - I disagree with you. I think there are lots of people on here who do have a problem with genuine transgender people.
There are a lot of people who simply don't believe it, and who say the most incredibly hurtful things.
I'm not one of them btw. One day we'll be able to drop the labels and it won't matter. Sadly, I doubt it will be in my lifetime.

thebewilderness · 08/02/2018 18:33

Thank you for bringing the threats bringonspring. I had been wondering why MN has escaped the standard threat to tell advertising how mean the mean meanies are. I think MN may be a bit too big for it to work but it will serve to let even more people know that silencing women is the goal.

Fekko · 08/02/2018 18:33

What’s GNC? I love the way some people are hell bent in dictating what box other people should be in.

BronwenFrideswide · 08/02/2018 18:34

Bringonspring no, what's outrageous is confusing sex with gender, demanding anything deemed female only is opened to all and sundry and refusing any debate or meaningful discussion about it.

Jude's comments aren't worthy of a response. Who has been positively gleeful at someone else's suffering Rat? If that charge is to be laid at the door of anyone in this debate it is the TRA's.

thebewilderness · 08/02/2018 18:35

It looks like the start of a brigade attack. dunnit?
I do not believe in transubstantiation. Put me on your list.

RatRolyPoly · 08/02/2018 18:35

bringonspring wasn't threatening, what ridiculous hyperbole!

thebewilderness · 08/02/2018 18:35

Gender Non Conforming

RatRolyPoly · 08/02/2018 18:36

Bronwen I don't know what any TRAs have said about anything but undoubtedly there are people taking it too far on that side of the floor as well.

Fekko · 08/02/2018 18:37

Ohhhhh. That’s a lot of people really isn’t it?

BronwenFrideswide · 08/02/2018 18:40

Perhaps you should have a look Rat, taking it too far is an understatement when applied to the rhetoric of TRA's.

Terftastic · 08/02/2018 18:40

"God forbid should any of your kids be gay for instance!"

We're not the homophobes here, Jude. The TRAs are disgustingly homophobic.

" Women must have a penis up her!"

Again - Jude, you're showing your ignorance. It's not women saying that - it's the TRAs pressuring lesbians into "having a penis up her" (as you so charmingly put) - not us.

So take your "purleeeeeeeeaaaaases" elsewhere - like to the TRAs who actually say that stuff.

Juzza12 · 08/02/2018 18:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SomeDyke · 08/02/2018 18:42

"So as a Mum of a gay child you can fuck off. If any of the virtue signaling lesbophobes came near my beautiful daughter I would have their heads off."

Now that's the kind of Mum a dyke needs! Smile

Persuading your Mum to get you aftershave for crimbo -- that was a bit of a landmark for me as well!

NauticalDisaster · 08/02/2018 18:42

Judecarr123 you come across as an absolute frothing bell-end with nothing intelligent to say. Present your examples, state your case, defend it, anything halfway intelligent will do. We will wait with bated breath.

DropItLikeASquat · 08/02/2018 18:46

Okay, I am probably going to get blasted for this but TBH, If I saw a trans woman, say in a communal changing room I would feel extremely uncomfortable, especially if my children were there. Some of my children are small and I don't want to have it forced upon me when I have to explain things to my children. Similarly I would feel uncomfortable if a trans man was swimming around in the pool looking like a man with breasts out. Its bigoted of you to force upon someone an explanation like this to their children. I also have a problem with someone like myself a straight woman that is biologically a woman being called CIS gendered. Its become an offensive term in the trans and 'gender fluid' community and I see it as no different to calling a gay person a 'fag' or 'dyke' or such like. Both types of language offend me equally FYI and I was only using the offensive gay term as an example. This opinion may be frowned upon by some but It is how I feel and it is my right to feel that way, weather people believe that educating me will change my opinion or not.
I feel indifferent towards trans people and I have a liberal approach to most things but I will refuse to be forced into anything that I don't feel is right.

Frequency · 08/02/2018 18:46

God forbid should any of your kids be gay for instance!

My child is a gender non conforming bi-sexual. Her boyfriend is a FTM transgender. I love and support them both. DD is struggling at the moment as she is unsure if she is bi or lesbian and is worried she will no longer fancy her boyfriend if he starts hormone therapy. I am there for her and listen to her and reassure her.

I have no issue with transgender people nor with any sexuality and dysphoria suffers have my greatest sympathy. My only issue is with trans rights activists whose misogynistic goal is to erase women completely.

Gender and sex are not the same. Do what you like with your gender but if you have XY chromosomes your sex is male. Males do not belong in female prisons, they do not belong in female refuges, they do not have the right to tell someone with XY chromosomes what it is to be a woman or complain they are discriminated against (and are having actual violence committed against them) if people of XY chromosomes discuss female biology around them.

Facts aren't phobic, they are facts.

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