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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

OP posts:
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PositivelyPERF · 08/02/2018 10:03

I'm sure it wasn't your intention, but your opening post now looks like a plan of self-indulgent wank that’s probably exactly what he’s doing, while reading this thread. 😆

Myunicornfliessideways · 08/02/2018 10:34

The OP seems to have been hoping for women to respond with shame and quickly start virtue signalling; not to unleash a lot of heated explanations of exactly why he's talking complete bollocks.

Unfortunately I'm increasingly reaching the point of view that the only thing that will turn this tide is enough women standing up, getting angry and facing it down as it happens.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 08/02/2018 11:28

Mummy ishoos

SimonBridges · 08/02/2018 12:43

I’ve just been reading about The Masons.
I dare some trans men to demand to join.

It’ll be interesting to see the double standards.

DodoPatrol · 08/02/2018 13:20

So far as I can see, it's possible to have a meaningful, accepting and interesting debate with anyone who describes themselves as 'transsexual/transgender -- obviously still my birth sex but need to present as the opposite for my own sake'.

It's very much harder to have any conversation whatever with someone whose starting point is 'I'm transgender, which means that I'm EXACTLY THE SAME AS YOU EXCEPT BIOLOGICALLY SO YOUR BIOLOGY IS NOW IRRELEVANT BECAUSE I DON'T SHARE IT YOU BIGOT.'

Stopmakingsense · 08/02/2018 13:41

SimonBridges - what about a transman wanting to be Catholic Priest?

gussyfinknottle · 08/02/2018 13:58

Stop, as a (rubbish) Catholic, I would love it if a transman, or indeed a transwoman, wanted to be a priest. Or a nun.
I'm an equal marriage, married priests, women priests, right to choose, divorce is perfectly reasonable as is contraception kind of Catholic.

Italiangreyhound · 08/02/2018 14:59

@Stopmakingsense "We need to change the conversation to "protecting and celebrating gender non-conforming kids".

I think you are so right, Anything that smacks of 'anti'-trans-ness will be pounced upon as 'conversion therapy', quite aside from the reality that c convincing healthy girls they are boys is the real conversion going on here.

PidgeonPodge · 08/02/2018 15:25

Gosh. I've managed to read this board religiously for quite a while now and haven't even shed a tear.

Let me guess, I'm doing 'trans' all wrong? Grin

That's the impression I get from these 'YOUR SO TRANSPHOBIC, MY FRIEND IS TRANS AND UPSET BY REALITY' posts that crop up from time.

Why does the biological reality of others upset your friend so much? I understand the mental anguish of gender dysmorphia, believe me, but that is in regards to your own body, not others.

I would advise intensive therapy, not demanding women lie down and take being overwritten. Your 'friend', and you by extension, have no right to tell women what to think or what to say.

Jog on mate.

OlennasWimple · 08/02/2018 15:44

IIRCC, part of the regime that introduced self-ID in Ireland also included carve outs for prisons but also to bar a FIT from becoming a Catholic priest. Which is a sure fire test whether legislators actually believe that it is possible to change sex (see also hereditary peers in the UK)

Italiangreyhound · 08/02/2018 15:58

@Stopmakingsense
@Datun
@Whambarsarentasfizzyastheywere

@ anyone else reading at the moment!

I am wondering if there is is any charity that helps parents with money for counselling etc or with grants or if they have spent a lot on counselling?

I have had a look and this is what I found.

www.family-action.org.uk/what-we-do/grants/

www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/grants-low-income

For anyone dealing with these issues and a disabled child there is also a fund called

www.familyfund.org.uk/

I just feel it is so unfair people with children with mental health issues and other problems are not helped sufficiently.

Datun · 08/02/2018 16:39

Italiangreyhound

Bless your bloody heart for that.

I have had a quick skim. The first website has closed their welfare grant section until April.

The last website appears to be for severely disabled children. I'm not sure that a gender identity crisis would qualify?

But the middle website says this:

Local council support schemes: Each local authority is responsible for providing help to its residents struggling with an emergency, such as you or your families' health being at risk, not being able to afford to buy food, needing help to stay in your own home and coming out of care, hospital or prison.

Which would appear to be directly applicable to @Whambarsarentasfizzyastheywere.

Given it is their landlord who is causing trouble.

You are so kind Italian. Across all the boards here.

Italiangreyhound · 08/02/2018 16:55

"The last website appears to be for severely disabled children. I'm not sure that a gender identity crisis would qualify?"

Yes, I know it doesn't apply here but I wanted to include it because there may be a variety of health issues for some reading/lurking.

@Datun "Bless your bloody heart for that." Thank you. I am just so moved by the situations so many families find themselves in! (You too are so much a sweetie Datun, and you know so much. It is so useful to be able to use these boards for a resource. There are people in my extended family, social circle all battling with these issues, (not necessarily all female but mostly) it feels close to so many many people.)

Italiangreyhound · 08/02/2018 16:55

Over-use of word so!!

ZBIsabella · 08/02/2018 17:07

These men never come over very well and they are never going to win any battles.

Most of us are pretty tolerant of difference amongst others and I am sure rarely unkind.

Some men (whether men who feel female or the more usual kind of men) just cannot cope with women not agreeing with them. If things are making them cry perhaps they just need to toughen up a bit or not read posts that upset them. It works for most of us, male or female.

Given the problems many of us have had with sex pest men and all the rest over decades of our lives and the few gains women (real women) have made we need to fight very hard to retain that and ensure any of the tiny territory rarely reserved for women such as a woman's post on a committee go to and remain in the hands of the few of us women (real women) who have managed to attain any power at all. We must not cede ground to transgender women although I am certainly happy for them to say what they like and use the disabled lavatories at work and the like.

Datun · 08/02/2018 17:09

"You too are so much a sweetie Datun,"

Bang goes all my cred. Blush

Juzza12 · 08/02/2018 17:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Charismam · 08/02/2018 17:17

No you're not alone

Fairenuff · 08/02/2018 17:20

'Apparently women joke about rape all the time?'

According to who?

Italiangreyhound · 08/02/2018 17:32

Not alone at all.

Italiangreyhound · 08/02/2018 17:32

Datun - Sorry! Wink

Juzza12 · 08/02/2018 17:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

salmonofwisdom · 08/02/2018 17:48

Haven't read all this post but much support to the OP. I too think this forum is being taken over by conservative bigots!

Terftastic · 08/02/2018 17:49

These TRAs, as well as being misogynists, are just the new generation of the 70s PIE.

We think these things have gone away (Nazis, PIE) but they never really do.

Fairenuff · 08/02/2018 17:50

Apparently women joke about rape all the time?'

TRAs are saying it.

They are not women.

Unless actual women who are prepared to put their names to the statement come forward, it's not true. These are men making up shit.

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