Disgusted by all the transphobia here

[MikePeterson]

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

I have heard transactivists say that the difference is that young kids don't stick to their insistence that they are a cat, dinosaur, etc. My reply is - you really don't know much about young kids

My child has been presenting as a member of the opposite sex for years. Coming up for 7 years to be precise.

My child was offered puberty blockers and there isn't a doubt in my mind that, had we accepted, my child would go in to fully transition.

As it stands we got a limited amount of help from the NHS (that stopped when the blockers were refused) and I have been paying for a private therapist for my child.

My child no longer wants to transition, as it turns out it was body dysmorphia and also a lot of feelings that my child had about being gay and the fact there is a lot of homophobia in my family (none of which we speak to anymore).

My child identifies as transgender long before the TRAs got involved and I've lived through the struggles before and after they did start their self identification campaign.

Before, things were hard as the help for my childs feelings was difficult to find. But we got there and were doing ok.

After they got involved the schools support turned from actual mental health help into a box ticking exercise to prove how inclusive they are. My child was refused therapy as it's not considered a mental health issue. A 'support' site for parents called me abusive for refusing blockers.

Back when we started this it took years and multiple doctors and appointments to make the difficult decisions with regard to moving forward in the process of transitioning. Now it's not that difficult at all.

We are able to effectively sterilize our kids with little thought for the future but are refused meaningful mental health help now.

The TRAs are not helping people struggling with this, they have done nothing for my family and lots of families like mine, they are forcing scared parents into making huge life changing choices for their mentally fragile children because the options are pretty much all or nothing now.

As for transphobia on this site, all I have had is support, lots of wonderful feminists sending me links and taking time out to help me, to send messages of support, they used my childs pronoun of choice and were nothing but respectful and helpful and it's very much thanks to them that I have remained so strong and actually found the brilliant counsellor my child now has.

Just because someone doesn't bow down to your every want it doesn't mean they are transphobic. It just means they can see the bigger picture for everyone. There is actually a lot of help and support in here if you choose to take the blinkers off and see that blindly agreeing with everything isn't the only way to help someone.

Whambars your post is very moving. I'm so glad you've felt welcome here. My heart goes out to you and your child and i'm so, so relieved for you they don't want to transition any longer.

I've been looking a bit at Rebekah Brueshoff's story on youtube. ( Rebekah is 10, I think and the way her mother presents everything, the only issues Rebekah has as a trans girl is society not accepting her. The whole thing is presented as Rebekah would be free to live her life peacefully if everyone would stop being mean.

The mother very casually talks about Jazz Jennings being a huge influence and says that Rebekah will go down the same route - puberty blockers and then cross sex hormones, with surgery after 18. I sat there watching it, looking at this beautiful innocent kid who of course only deserves the best life and to be happy, but thinking, you're going to willingly let your child grow up with stunted genitals, zero libido and to be sterile, knowing that Jazz doesn't have enough penile tissue to create a neo-vagina and knowing that Jazz has depression (and has been binge-eating to the point that she has been refused bottom surgery for now, until she loses 30 pounds).

Seriously, what parent can do that to their child. It's absolutely devastating. Rebekah doesn't have this uncomplicated future ahead of her. It's not that simple.

Whambarsarentasfizzyastheywere

My child no longer wants to transition,

Wow. That is good news.

And, if you are who I think you are, I believe your determination to resist quite considerable pressure, is what has led to this outcome.

Whambars, my very best wishes to you and your child.

I've mentioned before on here that one of mine (coincidentally also 7 years ago, so just before the madness) saw a counsellor because he was saying he wished he was a girl, was being ostracised by the boys, had always preferred 'girly' occupations, even said he'd thought about suicide. Even DH, who is very stuck in the 1900s no-nonsense, looked at him aged 10-ish and asked me, 'Do you think he actually knows he's a boy?'

The counsellor fairly briskly dismissed any idea that he might have a gender identity problem and said he had a school bullying problem. She was absolutely right, and a change of school (slightly to our surprise) sorted the whole issue.

I know that's trivial compared with what your child has been through, but he is another one who could have had his life course drastically altered if everyone around him had busily affirmed that he was a girl when he so wanted to be.

DS is not even gay. (Pretty much had to come out to his family as straight, but I think we've accepted it now.)

Whambars

Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

if that ethnic group were habitual offenders against women and committed 99.9% of those violent crimes then yes I would argue that it would be at the very least a way of preventing unnecessary distress and could even prevent further acts of violence.

Why would you not support a victim in that case to create a place that would help them to get back on their feet. Why do you need to have access so badly? Without imputing any ulterior motive than wanting to do a specific job in my eyes it would totally disqualify anyone from working in a place like a refuge if they could not realise that triggering a vulnerable person in whatever way would be harmful.

It isn't about transphobia (or racism in the hypothetical case) but doing what was right for the victim over and above anyone else.

whambarsarentasfizzyastheywere
So pleased to hear that you and your child have been able to navigate your way through this.

I don't believe that parents realise that the pressure groups actively promoting this ideology have been given a free pass to peddle their propaganda in schools (under the guise of 'anti - bullying of trans children which of course is totally legitimate). Tragically they are being allowed to change policy and practice - language, school systems, scientific and biological facts all under the guise of 'tolerance'.

Anyone with a penis, is a man.

Whambars; that post is worthy of a thread of its own, everyone should read it.

Someone called charlotte howard has put their head above the parapet and tweeted that she calls her artificial vagina an invenis or innie and that to otherwise is appropriating womanhood and tims need their own language 😀

God.
I've just looked at some of that Rebekah video. I don't want to trivialise any family's battles, but honestly I could have made the same set of videos about DS.

I have photos of him in skirts, in pink jumpers, in tiaras, in fairy costumes, dancing in tutus, playing tea parties with My Little Ponies. He would write stories in which he was a girl. He gave himself a girl's name at playgroup (mind you, one morning I heard the playleader saying 'Now, today I seem to have one boy called Zoe, one called Aoife, one boy baby lamb and a girl who's a puppy'). He desperately didn't want his voice to break.

I'm sure there must be a difference in degree, in 'persistence insistence and consistency', but the current trend has to be netting a lot of children who are just being children.

And school could have done us a favour by stopping the bullying for being a BOY who wanted to do all those things.

If children have free rein to bully a BOY doing that but are stopped by school policies the moment that boy 'becomes a girl'... yes, that couldn't ever go wrong, could it?

What I don't get is why I must call an adult who refuses transition surgery to remove their penis "a woman " because they feel like it. They are a transvestite - no big deal but they are. I get that the surgery is traumatic. Childbirth can be traumatic and mess your private parts for life.
I would support any family member or friend who had gender dysphoria. I don't do "boys toys/clothes/colours etc" or "girls toys/clothes/colours" and it is my dd's choice which toys/clothes/colours she is happy with. I'm not very groomed or girly. It's not what defines me as a woman. Other women like to be groomed etc. That's their thing.
I will not accept being dictated to by a man with a penis just because he happens to wear a dress.

And, if you are who I think you are, I believe your determination to resist quite considerable pressure, is what has led to this outcome.

Yes, same here.

If you are the poster I think, you did actually at first come to the 'debate' thinking we were all big meanies who hated trans people? Maybe not..but the whole story, the having to get private therapy once TRAs started their shit, and just the rest of it really reminds me of that poster, apologies if I have you wrong

Either way, I am so glad it was a good outcome for you and your child I do think that story, with the happy ending, deserves a thread of its own tbh

Whambarsarentasfizzyastheywere

I'm so glad your child has found themselves without, in the end, needing to resort to drastic medical interventions. This is a wonderful outcome and well done for supporting your child while sticking to your guns.

Yep, round of applause for excellent parenting from me too Whambars. You're a brave and strong woman and I'm sure your child will be always grateful to you for standing firm and protecting them from the overwhelming pressure to transition.

I've just looked at some of that Rebekah video. I don't want to trivialise any family's battles, but honestly I could have made the same set of videos about DS.

Me too. He desisted somewhat by age 7 when most of the princess dress up was happily consigned to the charity shop. At age 9 he was no longer interested in his doll collection so they went too.

Now at the start of secondary he is still fairly GNC, very arty, has a solid base of female friends and and an interest in fashion/grooming way more than his older brother.

He doesn't seem in any way unhappy or confused about being a boy but I did spend many years reiterating that boys or girls are allowed to like anything they want to. This was really important because his very GC older brother was prone to taking the piss sometimes.

I am very worried though that as he approaches teens he's going to stumble into trans ideology and think that this speaks to him in some way.

I flip between wanting to talk to him about it to get in front of it and not wanting to be the one to introduce the concept. To the best of my knowledge he doesn't have any awareness currently. I just hope that his high school actually inform parents if they include it on the curriculum or have guest speakers in.

At the moment I'm desperately hoping the bubble bursts somewhat in the next couple of years at least regards children and education anyway.

Whambars really happy you had a positive outcome with your child it must have been very hard.

More from me too Whambars

(And you're right - they aren't as fizzy, are they?!)

Whambars

And just mentioning here, alongside the insightful, clear and well explained gender critical posts from Wham, and Tamsin, and several other trans MNetters over the last few days on these threads, if I see another suggestion on the site stuff thread that HQ create a 'trans subsection' so the dear little trans people (who obviously exist only in those posters' imaginations) can talk in safety - my head is going to explode.

Fuck off with patronising the actual practicing MNetters who live with this stuff and are already right here telling you the issues they are facing .

Pleased to hear that news Whambars!

Thanks all.

I really haven't felt strong or brave at any point through this whole mess, it feels like I've been running at 100 miles an hour just to stand still some days.

I have name changed a few times but it is me (can't keep my job shut long enough to not out my new names when it comes to trans issues )

I did start off on these threads thinking that what was being said wasn't my reality. Then I moved and had to go through things again in my new area and I realised that actually it's really easy now. I spoke to parents like myself on mermaids and they are all telling each other how to get blockers within weeks and I didn't much like it.

I was determined to hold out on anything major until puberty at least thanks to what i had read on here and, thankfully, it seems to have paid off.

My child still presents as the opposite sex but has told everyone in school about their biology and the kids have been fantastic about it. One person made a negative comment and was pulled up by several children on it.

My child still had body dysmorphia, but things are getting a lot better as my child now recognises it as dysmorphia which is a huge step.

Once again thanks for the support on here. I really don't think I could have held out without it.

I have so much sympathy for parents like me who do start on blockers because it's so fucking hard to see your child in pain every day then have support groups pressuring you too.

I don't much sympathise with people who out their child's struggle on YouTube though.

And, no, wham bars aren't as fizzy as they were, I was very disappointed

You're an amazing woman, Wham, and your child is lucky to have you.

Wham, you did an amazing job

Ova, when you said I flip between wanting to talk to him about it to get in front of it and not wanting to be the one to introduce the concept. I totally see the problem.

I’m trying to think how it might be possible to open up discussion on other topics (maybe your own feminism and experiences as a woman) so you can discuss stereotypes, societal pressure etc from a personal perspective without going anywhere that might be riskier. Of course, you may have done all that.

The other night DD and I were talking about how the instructions in your cells make your body how it is (girl/boy) but other stuff isn’t fixed in the same way (bringing in that thing about how pink used to be a ‘boys’ colour’ and now it’s a ‘girls’ colour’ so it’s an idea we have which isn’t ‘real’ in the same way). This was in the context of me laughing because I’d seen blue/pink children’s loo seats for sale and saying that wasn’t really something we had quite so much of in the 80s.

As you say, it’s finding appropriate ways to get in front of all the crap without helping transmit it.