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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

OP posts:
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LanaKanesTerfyVagina · 05/02/2018 18:58

All you have to do is believe it Fekko

If mother nature doesn't listen she's snowphobic and is committing literal violence against you.

Elendon · 05/02/2018 19:00

I'm a woman. I do not believe transphobia exists.

Hatred against women exists.

crunchymint · 05/02/2018 19:00

You are missing a trick Fekko. Just look out the window and believe that what you see is snow. And anyone disagreeing that it is snowing is snowphobic.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 05/02/2018 19:00

Fekko

It did snow. It's really rather physically essentialist to suggest it didn't just because snowflakes didn't fall from the sky.

Check your privilege.

Schlimbesserung · 05/02/2018 19:04

I've seen posters here expressing horror and disgust at transwomen being subjected to violence and abuse. I've seen real support and interest in their stories. I (and others) have expressed admiration for some of them because of the grace and dignity with which they face their difficulties.
I just haven't seen anyone claiming that a penis or Y chromosome can be magicked away. Because that wouldn't help anyone.

Fekko · 05/02/2018 19:07

Maybe the people who believe this haven’t had the experience of explaining to a small, stubborn child they they are not: Spider-Man, a cat, a dinosaur, allergic to broccoli, innocent of drawing in the walls in crayon (especially when they have drawn their own name), allowed to drink coffee/wine/laundry detergent...

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 05/02/2018 19:09

allowed to drink coffee/wine/laundry detergent

'Daddy says I can...'

Grin
crunchymint · 05/02/2018 19:09

I have heard transactivists say that the difference is that young kids don't stick to their insistence that they are a cat, dinosaur, etc. My reply is - you really don't know much about young kids.

Schlimbesserung · 05/02/2018 19:14

I have heard transactivists say that the difference is that young kids don't stick to their insistence that they are a cat, dinosaur, etc. My reply is - you really don't know much about young kids
I had a child who insisted he was an African Horned Beetle- for over 3 months. Obvs he now insists that he never did any such thing.

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 05/02/2018 19:14

chickendrizzlecake Inhave been wondering too about Goldacre and Dawkins - I wonder if they have the guts but possibly they just don’t think it’a important enough!

MrsFogi · 05/02/2018 19:15

Mike maybe you can help me, you seem like a caring kind of guy. I'm totally confused, I've never been described as beautiful or feminine but I've just double checked and I don't have a penis. Can you assist me with what sex and/or gender I am. I've always assumed my sex was female and generally (apart from days when I'm ranting at dh about trans issues and point out that he may be married to a man or transman) assumed my gender is female despite not conforming to many female stereotypes. Can you or any other mners help - am I a man/transman/someone in need of a whole new category that no one should attack I think it's important for me to know, it's most unsettling not knowing what I am since a group of entitled people seem to have hijacked the sex/gender previously known as "woman/female".

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 05/02/2018 19:16

I had a child who insisted he was an African Horned Beetle- for over 3 months.

My DSD's friend thought she was a dog and only barked responses, for several years.

Fekko · 05/02/2018 19:17

And a child saying that they are a cat would never be taken to a cat therapist who decides that yes, the child is need a cat in in need of cat hormones and fuzzy bits added onto their body. And their name changes to Miss Tiddles of Fluffington. Legally. And their school obliged to provide a kitty litter tray and flea collar.

Ereshkigal · 05/02/2018 19:19

Somedyke

Unless "taught a lesson" was ironic, I'm failing to see it Grin

Frequency · 05/02/2018 19:19

My DSD's friend thought she was a dog and only barked responses, for several years

Your DSD is not friends with my DD is she? She was a JRT named Jack for around 4-5 years.

Had anyone told her she was able to transition to being a 'real' dog, I'm certain she would've grabbed onto it like a terrier with a rope toy. Fortunately, such things are not possible. She now identifies as a human female.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 05/02/2018 19:21

twitter.com/NaturalAllWoman/status/902246898479882240

For a quite comprehensive list. For those wavering.

birdbandit · 05/02/2018 19:21

I think I have worked out what Mike understands to be the differences between the genders, (did he ever clarify?)

It appears that as a MAN, he understands his point of view to be superior to that of a WOMAN. Glad he popped over to put all us women right, we had it all so wrong!

(Eyes roll out of head and bounce away, because they have seen shit they can't unsee..)

BloodyMarie · 05/02/2018 19:22

I have sympathy for parents whose children have gender dysphoria. My friends daughter did. It was as described by parents whose children transition. The girl would only wear 'boys clothes', liked playing with boys, football etc. Wanted her willy to grow. She got very rageful and distraught. From as young as she was able to articulate it until puberty. It was very stressful. My friends didnt take her to a doctor, didnt ever once consider that she was a boy. Because its ludicrous. Just explained that she could wear whatever she likes and play with what and who ever she liked; but she was a girl. Because she had a vagina.

But, i cant imagine deviating from that course of action at all...let alone, the parents who trans their kids as early as 4,5,6,7 etc

Tough times

littlebillie · 05/02/2018 19:22

God why are we giving these individuals a voice? Seriously though ignore ignore ignore

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 05/02/2018 19:22

Your DSD is not friends with my DD is she? She was a JRT named Jack for around 4-5 years

I always pictured a black border collie but she was quite goth so perhaps I mis-breeded her.

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 05/02/2018 19:29

somedyke thanks for linking this - at least I don’have to worry that Dawkins lost the plot!

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 05/02/2018 19:34

LOL at „taught lesson”’too. It’s like Saying jeremy Hunt taught Stephen Hawkins a lesson...

DaisyDrip · 05/02/2018 19:36

TellsEveryoneRealFacts

My God, that list is scary. The worst part is, I bet it's only the tip of the iceberg.

KalaLaka · 05/02/2018 19:48

God why are we giving these individuals a voice? Seriously though ignore ignore ignore

I respectfully disagree. Open discussion should always be encouraged, even if it's rarely successful in this topic.

TERFousBreakdown · 05/02/2018 19:59

Look, I have every sympathy for dysphoric people. I'm more than happy to include male-bodied individuals who, for whatever reason, identify more with women than with men in most (but, sorry, not quite all) situations that are commonly segregated according to sex/gender (which, let's face it, in the overwhelming majority of all cases is treated as synonymous in practice).

Having said that, you know what? I'm a woman, and I'm fucking scared! I've recently dared to post a thing or two on this forum as well as on others that identify me as a gender-critical individual. Now I genuinely fear that I may become subject to online bullying, doxxing or worse. I live on my own, and I'm not precisely an imposing physical presence. The thought of "women" half a foot taller than myself and a lot more muscular trying to pick a fight with me scares the fucking shit out of me. I'm scared of being the victim of male violence. I know male violence is a threat to me because I've experienced it. I've experienced it because all my life men, as a class, seem to have been operating under the assumption that they're deserving of both access to my body upon demand and to me deferring to them intellectually.

And that, apart from not having a fucking penis, on the non-physical plane that some people seem to argue is a lot more relevant than mere biology, is what it means to be a woman!

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