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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

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TheCatsPaws · 05/02/2018 15:08

It's the perfect contraceptive too. Worried about getting pregnant? Pregnant and don't want to be? Just say to yourself I am a man and it will all go away.

Guess I don’t need to worry about my suspected endometriosis now. I can just be a man...why didn’t I think of this sooner?

OvaHere · 05/02/2018 15:10

So what has changed Geronimo? We touched on this on another thread and I suggested that it was a downside of social media, wide spread internet usage and continuous tech boundaries being pushed.

It's not just the trans debate that has suffered from lack of critical thought, it's an issue in a number of areas (but this is probably the craziest example).

TheCatsPaws · 05/02/2018 15:21

Honestly, what’s happened is society is anti intellectual but social media means info is more accessible, but people don’t have the critical thinking skills to analyse it.

Ereshkigal · 05/02/2018 15:24

How in such a short space of time have we flipped to suddenly having this very vocal group of men demanding their their inner feelings take priority over everything and trying to push objective reality aside. I couldn't have predicted it in a million years. I thought we were entering this wonderfully objective age where critical thinking was king.

I'm not really a fan of Dawkins, but where is he now? Surely he must see all this as a damaging "mind virus" or whatever?

LanaKanesTerfyVagina · 05/02/2018 15:33

I'm not sure why it's flipped again.

I too thought we were heading towards evidence, science based critical thinking and the dropping on random dogmas.

Instead, old dogmas are being replaced with new ones now.

We must all bow to the new religions like Trans and Slebs and polarised politics.

Critical thought is becoming an actual fucking crime.

Speaking scientific facts is becoming hate crime.

It's easier to control people as a whole if you inhibit their ability to think critically......whipping up feelings and emotions, making people feel they have to pick a side, even if both extremes are wrong, dividing people....all helps to keep the population from questioning those holding all the power.

People aren't pushed into analysing things....because that invariably leads to them questioning all sorts of other things.

Bit of a ramble sorry.....can't quite express what I kean.

TheCatsPaws · 05/02/2018 15:38

I don’t understand why it’s apoarently transphobic to say that trans women have a different experience to women because they don’t grow up being viewed as women.

That’s the one that gets me. That’s just factual, why is it offensive?!

DaisyDrip · 05/02/2018 15:47

She is a woman with a penis

When I went to school that described a man!

Let me tell you something. Today my hair is scraped up and tied up, I'm dressed in an old tatty tshirt and a pair of old tatty joggers. I've just moved house and as a widow am dealing with all that entails when your home is old and needs a load of work done on it. Today was the electrician putting up all new light fittings which has left me covered in plaster. The reason for telling you this? I look as unfeminine as it's possible to look, yet I conceived, was pregnant and gave birth to DC, I then breastfed them. I bled from my vagina every month and had the damn cramps and brain fog that went with that cycle. I have been through hot flushes and all that menopause entails too.

In other words, while I look anything but feminine I am a woman, not a cis woman just a woman. I don't have a penis nor is my vagina constructed from an inverted penis. My hormones are all my own (I choose not to have HRT (that may or may not change)).

Are you getting the picture about what being a woman is all about yet?

PS. Please encourage your 'friend' to get the help they so badly seem to need.

allthegoodnameshadgone · 05/02/2018 16:06

"A penis has no inherent gender."

I've heard it all now. You are off your tits.

Vagina - women
Penis - man

If you want to identify as the opposite sex then that's fine but until you have the surgery to remove and replace what you have then you are still the same sex you were before you identified as something else.

SleepFreeZone · 05/02/2018 16:07

WIsh this site has Like buttons. I’d have liked so many posts on this thread. Well said Daisy 👏

Thehairthebod · 05/02/2018 16:18

"A penis has no inherent gender."

This statement kind of makes me think of some penises going down the pub to watch the football with a pint of beer, whilst other penises spend hours doing their makeup in the mirror and slip into a dress and heels.

Penis = man. I can't believe that this fact is up for debate.

LindySprint · 05/02/2018 16:23

Whilst I respect the rights of doctrinal adherents to believe in the truth of that doctrine, I do not respect them when they loudly insist that all others must believe it too.

I respect men who want to push the boundaries of 'being a man' and to explore the liminalities of the category of 'man-ness' - but not those who seek to occupy the category 'women'.

LanaKanesTerfyVagina · 05/02/2018 16:24

This statement kind of makes me think of some penises going down the pub to watch the football with a pint of beer

Like my local you mean? Grin

Datun · 05/02/2018 16:26

TheCatsPaws

I don’t understand why it’s apoarently transphobic to say that trans women have a different experience to women because they don’t grow up being viewed as women.

That’s the one that gets me. That’s just factual, why is it offensive?!

The theory is that a male who feels he was female from birth would absorb everything directed at females and filter out everything directed at males.

And therefore has the female experience.

Once again, missing the point that biology does not depend upon feelings. And no matter how he felt, he would have been treated as male.

Given that some humans do not even get to be born if they are female.

It also misses the point that the female biological experience can only be experienced by females. As someone said upthread, no woman wakes up with an erection.

And no man comes on in the middle of Sainsbury's.

Frequency · 05/02/2018 16:34

I am female, both biologically and in my mind and I haven't absorbed everything about what being female entails by osmosis.

I don't, for example, understand what it's like to have a C-section because I've been around women who have had them. I don't know what it is like to suffer a miscarriage because I am fortunate to have never had to face that nightmare. Rape is also something I am lucky enough to have never suffered.

You cannot possibly absorb the socialisation and experiences of another person just because you feel a certain way.

MountainsofMars · 05/02/2018 16:38

I respect men who want to push the boundaries of 'being a man' and to explore the liminalities of the category of 'man-ness' - but not those who seek to occupy the category 'women'.

Yes, yes, yes.

TheCatsPaws · 05/02/2018 16:39

Thanks for explaining Datun, I wondered where they were getting it from.

You’re absolutely right, it ignores how you’re treated. If society doesn’t think you’re female you won’t be treated like a female.

MountainsofMars · 05/02/2018 16:43

I don’t understand why it’s apoarently transphobic to say that trans women have a different experience to women because they don’t grow up being viewed as women

Oh because the little snowflakes have the feelz. They've always really been women inside. JUst that they were 'born in the wrong bodies.' So they suffered as little boys and don't want to be reminded of that.

And anyway, they were really little girls so it's hateful and transphobic to suggest that they had anything to do with being boys and they hate you and theyre going to tell on you and someone will come and punish you because you've been really naughty and nasty ....

Oh, you get the picture. It's another version of :

What about t'menz?

Fekko · 05/02/2018 16:56

I remember me and my sister (when we were little) trying to describe to each other and what water tastes like. Drove our poor mum nuts.

I feel that’s a bit like when a man says that they ‘feel like a woman’.

How? How do you know what it feels like? A skirt and lippy isn’t a feeling. Heels and long hair isn’t it. Acting all flippy and speaking in a rasping folsetto isn’t it.
Saying over and over and over ‘but I am a woman!’ really isn’t it.

I can mooch about in jeans and a t-shirt (no change there), scratch my crotch, belch, fart, talk about football and say ‘phwaaaaar’ at someone in a skirt (or whatever ridiculous stereotype men do) but I couldn’t ever know what it feels like to be a man.

Yes, you can feel out of place, different from everyone around you, like you don’t fit on... like every other teenager on the planet.

seXXyLady · 05/02/2018 16:58

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PositivelyPERF · 05/02/2018 16:59

SuperLoudPoppingAction that was absolutely hilarious. 🤣

PositivelyPERF · 05/02/2018 17:01

Fekko that’s actually a brilliant analogy for trying to explain how a man is a woman.

EmpressOfJurisfiction · 05/02/2018 17:02

A penis has no inherent gender.

Yep, I'd agree with that. Nobody has an inherent gender (loathsome word). A penis is a male SEX organ.

And no man comes on in the middle of Sainsbury's.

Grin If a man wakes up to find themselves lying on a bloody sheet, something is seriously wrong. If a woman wakes up to that she's more likely to mutter "Oh fuck", put it to soak in cold water & get herself in the shower.

KittiesInsane · 05/02/2018 17:05

Oh, life can genuinely be hell for 'feminine' boys who dislike sport and like dance and kittens. All of mine suffered. One of them started to say he 'should have been a girl'.

If he'd had it fed to him that Some Boys Are Girls from the age of 5, he would willingly have believed it.

He can't be unique.

chickendrizzlecake · 05/02/2018 17:05

I'm not really a fan of Dawkins, but where is he now?

I have been wondering this for a while now. And what about the bad science guy - Goldacre. Or any of those other people who pop up on the TV and radio to debunk stuff or sneer at astrologers all the time. Why are they completely silent on this issue??

Sadly the only reason I can think of is that maybe it's not so urgent or important to debunk bad science when it's only women who are going to be negatively affected by it.

DodoPatrol · 05/02/2018 17:06

A woman is a woman if she "truly believes it in her heart"

Not while asleep then. Or unconscious, or dead. Just a temporary state of mind?

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