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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

OP posts:
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peepholepringle · 05/02/2018 13:59

Not even going to bother reading past this gem:

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender

Have a Biscuit OP

ALunerExplorer · 05/02/2018 14:00

Hey Mike. This thread had been taken down when I swung by here last night, so, solidarity with your friend and you for what its worth.

I occasionally post here not to try and change anyone's mind, but in the event that there are people around who could do with hearing a friendly voice from time to time. Please tell your friend that she is valued.

I'm not surprised it has received the responses that it did, because the justifications of 'we just want debate' are never quite matched by what happens when, in that spirit, a different feminist perspective is offered.

Wish your friend well from me.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 05/02/2018 14:03

Bertrand

'He was a very clever man Sir Thomas More' Grin

LanaKanesTerfyVagina · 05/02/2018 14:03

The men's rights movement has waited years, decades even, for such a chance to encroach on women's rights

I agree.

I also think so many of the right on brosocialist types have jumped on this because it allows them to give free rein to their misogyny after years of having to be quiet about it.

Not only can they now shout at women as much as they like....
They will get right on brownie points for it, get back slapped and applauded for it- their victims will be silenced or turned into the aggressor- they have struck fucking misogyny gold with this

A lot of hardcore leftie dudes I have come across are vile, abusive, sexist arseholes. (and I say that as a hardcore lefty)

They just had to keep a lid on it and pay lipservice to all the mean, nasty shouty feminists with their pesky gross body hair and unwillingness to be sex objects.

LanaKanesTerfyVagina · 05/02/2018 14:06

ALunerExplorer

Are you going to debate then???

Or just run on....tell us we're all big meanies and not worth debating with....like all the other handmaidens??

Because lots of sensible, respectful questions have been asked, but funnily enough none of the pro trans lot seem strangely reluctant to answer them.

If you are so convinced.....why don't you have a crack at answering a couple.....prove us all wrong.

I'll start with a really simple one.

What is a woman??

Ereshkigal · 05/02/2018 14:08

That poster is as goady as the OP.

LanaKanesTerfyVagina · 05/02/2018 14:10

I love the way they are oh so convinced .....but never quite convinced enough to answer simple and basic questions.

Hmm
TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 05/02/2018 14:10

Please tell your friend that she is valued.

Nobody said he wasn't valued.

Ereshkigal · 05/02/2018 14:12

when, in that spirit, a different feminist perspective is offered.

Grin find one quote where Mike offered a "different feminist perspective". Rather than where he says his male friend is more womanly than Linda Bellos and that we will all be arrested in future for thoughtcrime and that's a good thing?

ALunerExplorer · 05/02/2018 14:13

Its not that there aren't any responses, its just you can't hear them when you're heads are so profoundly shoved where the sun does not shine.

A woman is whoever the hell she says she is, and she is most certainly not restricted to any definition that begins and ends with her capacity to bear a child.

Frequency · 05/02/2018 14:14

What I would have liked to have said to her, when she told me she was followed home, I would have told her that when she’s followed home, what she’s afraid of is being sexually assaulted. Well, I’m afraid of being sexually assaulted followed by being murdered — Andi Dier.

My question to the trans community, if they want debate is why would you support that statement? Are women's issues so alien to you that you don't see how wrong that statement is? Why is this person being held up as your representative?

PositivelyPERF · 05/02/2018 14:14

Mother nature - the ultimate transphobe

I’d wear that on a tee shirt, if it wasn’t for the likelihood that I would be physically assaulted by a man in a dress. That’s my reality.

OvaHere · 05/02/2018 14:17

Its not that there aren't any responses, its just you can't hear them when you're heads are so profoundly shoved where the sun does not shine.

We hear them. We just don't believe them.

ALunerExplorer · 05/02/2018 14:19

Which is why I don't post to change anyone's mind, not when they are all so firmly shut.

LanaKanesTerfyVagina · 05/02/2018 14:20

Its not that there aren't any responses, its just you can't hear them when you're heads are so profoundly shoved where the sun does not shine

Good debate tactic there.....personal abuse is always a good start.
No one here has said anything as shitty as what you just wrote right there.

And I have been on this thread since the start.......
No one gets past the "a woman is just feelz innit" answer....which is exactly what you just wrote.....

A woman is whoever the hell she says she is, and she is most certainly not restricted to any definition that begins and ends with her capacity to bear a child

I'm sorry that's just trite.

How can a man with a functioning penis be a woman??

Nothing to do with child bearing....a woman with no womb is still biologically a woman.

What magically turns a man with a penis into a woman then??
Seriously??

AssassinatedBeauty · 05/02/2018 14:20

@ALunerExplorer can I just check that you're ok with this comment that Mike made:

"She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots."

confusedhelpme · 05/02/2018 14:20

"She is a woman with a penis"

She doesn't have a vagina thou does she?

juneau · 05/02/2018 14:22

He puts on a dress and ta-da! He's a woman.

I'm wearing trousers today, so maybe I'm a man?

OvaHere · 05/02/2018 14:24

Which is why I don't post to change anyone's mind, not when they are all so firmly shut.

Why do you think anyone should believe a penis is a female sex organ? It's not closed minded it's material reality.

BertrandRussell · 05/02/2018 14:25

"A woman is whoever the hell she says she is, and she is most certainly not restricted to any definition that begins and ends with her capacity to bear a child."

I don't think the definition of a woman is to do with being able to bear a child either. But please can you tell me what your definition of a woman is, and why you think that it is the correct definition?

NoqontroI · 05/02/2018 14:25

Women don't have a penis. Although I sympathize with your friend to some degree as it must be difficult. Insisting that some women have a penis is not the answer to the problem though.

Collidascope · 05/02/2018 14:26

"A woman is whoever the hell she says she is"
If that's literally all there is to woman, why would anyone want to identify as one? According to your definition, there are no traits or characteristics to identify with. Is it just a very strong liking for that particular letter arrangement?

Ereshkigal · 05/02/2018 14:26

Its not that there aren't any responses, its just you can't hear them when you're heads are so profoundly shoved where the sun does not shine.

Yes that's totally reasonable, respectful and thoughtful debate Hmm

LanaKanesTerfyVagina · 05/02/2018 14:27

Oh and my mind is firmly fucking open......open to science, facts and truth.

When I am presented with these things....I change my mind.

That is the very definition of being open minded.

When someone shows me scientific proof ....I will hold my hands up and change me mind.

Blindly following a dogma with zero scientific basis, and ignoring peoples concerns, is ironically the opposite of open minded.

LanaKanesTerfyVagina · 05/02/2018 14:29

What magically turns a man with a penis into a woman then??
Seriously??

Just repeating this question in case Luners oh so open mind missed it.

I'd really like an answer.

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