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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

OP posts:
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13
DullAndOld · 04/02/2018 18:45

ye I think so too ova...
what a surprise.

IrianOfW · 04/02/2018 18:46

Yep. What hairyballtheorem said.

HarveyKietelRabbit · 04/02/2018 18:48

Dullandold: exactly. My transwomen friends consider themselves that - transwomen. They're not wanting cervical smears and to work in womens refuges or be the 'womens officer' for any organisation. Because they know they don't fit that demographic.

I went to a conference a couple of years ago with Alex of the scarves....and my trans friends were really fucked off 'we went through abuse and discrimination, treatment and procedures and he rocks up in a skirt and eye shadow and a beard and everyone calls him SHE and people are lining up to chat to 'her' and be seen as progressive...

Melamin · 04/02/2018 18:50

"She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots"

Woman = someone attractive enough for men to fuck, who cries.

Weezol · 04/02/2018 18:50

Mike,

Please pass on my regards to Owen and Lily and all the guys at Bromentum.

W

PistFump · 04/02/2018 18:52

I like the comparison with identifying as another race. I think it's a very compatible scenario. I think I was meant to be Japanese so I'll eat Japanese food and wear a kimono and live in japan and learn to speak Japanese. Doesn't make me Japanese does it.

This is getting laughable.

itsbetterthanabox · 04/02/2018 18:58

Surely it's bigoted to not let any men at all in women's spaces? Because we are judging them for being different? And they judging us.

Myunicornfliessideways · 04/02/2018 19:04

So you'd like me to stop having and expressing my objective reality to protect your friend's subjective one? I'm not without feeling for your friend, but no. That way madness lies.

Disgusted by all the transphobia here
CardsforKittens · 04/02/2018 19:05

So it's absurd and offensive to be triggered by being around someone with a penis after a traumatic sexual assault?

And if this just happened to be my lived experience, leading me to seek out penis-free safe spaces, this would be some kind of indication that I'm intolerant and people should spit on me?

I'm all in favour of a robust debate, but dismissing women's experiences and engaging in violent fantasies is probably going to be counterproductive.

TheChampagneGalop · 04/02/2018 19:07

I especially like how OP tries to emotionally manipulate by writing that his male friend cried because of mean mumsnetters understanding that penis is male.
Because women are always meant to care about men's feelings but our thoughts and feelings on the subject don't matter.

LaDilettante · 04/02/2018 19:07

Funny how I don’t really hear much about transmen being all militant and telling men what a man should be or call themselves a man with a vagina.

RatRolyPoly · 04/02/2018 19:07

I didn't see the thread you refer to, so I don't know the context, but I can see myself, in exasperation after the umpteenth SJW has told me, a women who has had a hysterectomy that this means I am the same as a man, and to believe otherwise is transphobic, to give up and in exasperation say "FINE! I'm a transphobe then".

I really appreciate your post, and I absolutely understand the frustration you're describing. I would never haul anyone to task for resigning themselves to a slur being forced upon them by others.

I assure you there was not one drop of ambiguity in the poster's intent. The thread title was along the lines of "I'm so fed up of having to preface what I say with "I'm not a transphobe, but..."", and the words I've used were the exact and sum total of the post. You tell me if there's any ambiguity. And it went unchecked.

HarveyKietelRabbit · 04/02/2018 19:08

itsbetter - think about the reasons and educate yourself about what bigotry means.

Do women not want men in womens toilets , changing rooms, prisons, refuges etc because they are intolerant of different opinions (that's what bigotry means) or because they genuinely fear what would happen if men are in those spaces that women should feel safe in?

And why would women not feel safe in any space? Because of men ..

DailyWTFMoments · 04/02/2018 19:09

It is indeed a shame that your friend, with a penis, is being penalised for the way in which other people with penis' behave. What is she doing to change that?

I live in the rural country. Lots of my friends own guns. They are responsible, law-abiding people, who need their guns to do their job.

However, because other people with guns have used them as weapons, my friends are required to make adjustments to the way in which they live their life, as a gun-owner, in order to safeguard me from people who don't use their guns responsibly.

My gun-owning friends aren't campaigning to relax the gun laws - they know that they could also become the victim of an irresponsible gun-owner. My responsible, gun-owning friends are campaigning to reduce the number of irresponsible gun-owners.

Why is it that responsible penis owners are campaigning to relax the laws relating to penis-ownership instead of campaigning against the irresponsible penis-owners?

Charismam · 04/02/2018 19:10

you lost me at ''she is a woman with a penis''.

I hope your friend lives her life without fear of harrassment or abuse but women defending women's prizes, spaces, races, scholarships, quotas, clubs, interests and so on is not ''transphobic''

MountainsofMars · 04/02/2018 19:13

Surely it's bigoted to not let any men at all in women's spaces?

Why @Itsbetterthanabox ? Why is it bigoted to have women-only spaces? Why is it bigoted to enable women to organise as a group, and speak without fear of being shouted down, talked over, or bullied (common experiences for women in any kind of conversation with men).

CalloftheHaunted · 04/02/2018 19:13

So a TIM who had a past traumatic experience with another man is triggered by seeing a penis or being near a penis, so now wants to go in female spaces, regardless of whether those women may also have had traumatic experiences caused by men, to feel 'safe'. How entitled. How male. Fuck that.

CapnHaddock · 04/02/2018 19:14

Anyway this is bullshit. There's no way this is a 'fresh wave of transphobia'.

What's your friend's username?

Pannalash · 04/02/2018 19:15

So OP am I right in thinking that ‘presenting a feminine image’ is a measure of femininity to you. How does having a penis do that? I am genuinely puzzled.

AlwaysPondering · 04/02/2018 19:15

So if your friend is a woman, can she not take one for the team? And not take it so personal that we don't want penises in private womens spaces? Ya know, because not everyone is who they claim to be, and ya know, because of rape etc.?

GreenSeededGrape · 04/02/2018 19:15

You lost me at "she is a woman with a penis"

BeyondWitchbitchterf · 04/02/2018 19:16

Panna - you tie a pretty pink ribbon around it

PencilsInSpace · 04/02/2018 19:17

Fuck this shit.

BertrandRussell · 04/02/2018 19:18

I wish I understood where the "transwomen are women" thing came from. and how it became unquestionable. Who was the first person to say it? Whose idea was it? Who benefits from it? And what is so wrong with "transwomen are transwomen"?

wiccamum · 04/02/2018 19:20

Oh Mike, didn’t really work out the way you hoped did it? All these angry ladies not appreciating you telling them they are wrong...poor fella.

Anyway, sod off now pickle and go and support your friend instead of hassling us.

And if anyone is interested, there is a lovely thread about things that have made your day today...this thread has made mine 😆

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