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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

OP posts:
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gussyfinknottle · 04/02/2018 18:24

Op, your friend may be a lovely person who would never dream of hurting someone by using a penis. I don't know that. That's pretty much the point. If I see an adult penis in what I thought was a woman's safe space, my first thought isn't "I'm sure they are a lovely person ".

SimonBridges · 04/02/2018 18:24

Trans people are in the same situation gays were some years ago.

Yes and no.
Yes trans people are the subject of bigoted and abusive attitudes.
However, all gay people wanted was the right to love who they love. They did not want to change the rights of straight people. They wanted the same rights as gay people.

Transwomen want to redefine the meaning of woman and remove the rights of women.

hackmum · 04/02/2018 18:24

"She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots."

Haven't read the rest of the thread. I expect it's the usual shit. But I wish somebody would plaster this on billboards in letters 10 feet high because it tells you everything you need to know about the vile misogyny at the heart of transactivism.

Oh, and I don't know if the OP is a troll or if he is genuinely so thick that he believes his friend in a frock is more "feminine" than Linda Bellos, who has birthed two children and as a black lesbian feminist has experienced discrimination and abuse all her life.

TopBitchoftheWitches · 04/02/2018 18:25

When will this rubbish end?

If you have a penis you ARE a man. What is so hard to understand about that?
If people are so keen to be a woman why can't they respect actual biological women's right to be safe and understand that we don't want males in our safe areas?
If they are a woman they would understand why.

What is so difficult to understand?

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 04/02/2018 18:25

I can't imagine either Pankhurst looking at any of the TRAs I am aware of and concluding they were women. I can imagine them wondering how the fuck 21st century society got to the point where the sex of a penis is a controversial issue.

Cos it's really not you know.

HarveyKietelRabbit · 04/02/2018 18:27

I completely see why some people with gender dysphoria don't want surgery.

It's enormous surgery with several stages and it is painful and invasive and doesn't necessarily end with a good outcome.

I get that whereas I think some people don't.

It doesn't make a difference to my view of trans people though.

If you have a penis or have had it inverted and want me to consider you a woman?

No. Never. You are a transwoman. That's it. You're a transwoman.

If you have had no hormones or surgery but what to live as a woman. Fine. But I won't consider you a woman or a transwoman. You're a man who identifies as a woman. That's fine. So long as you aren't trying to access womens spaces or roles.

Crack on.

DullAndOld · 04/02/2018 18:30

^^ I agree with Harvey, totally.

Some of my best friends have been transsexuals...Grin

OK that's not really true but I did have a lovely house mate who was. She was fine, cannot recall any moment when she started with this shite that is being thrown at women today

Lillygolightly · 04/02/2018 18:32

Have you ever seen those videos of a cat that has grown up with dogs and therefore identifies as a dog, acts like a dog? Cute right? Still a cat though isn’t it? No amount of it thinking or acting like a dog is going actually make it a dog! More Importantly because it is a cat, it’s biology and instincts are cat because it was born a cat and will always be a cat!!!!

For instance, you can’t put a cat in a dogs home, nor can you put a dog in a cattery. Why?? Well if you put a dog in a cattery even if the dog thinks it’s a cat, identifies as a cat and acts like a cat, the actual cats see a dog, and are threatened by the dog because it’s a dog!!!

I don’t care what any person identifies as being, identify as a polar bear, good for you! Everyone should have the right to choose what they want to be and the kind of life they want to live. However if your born with a penis you don’t belong in a female restroom/changing room.

Having the choice to be any gender other than the one you were born with is great!! What a wonderful world we live in that such options and choices are available to us! However making those choice has consequences. The issues surrounding female spaces should not be that women must accept a female identifying penis in their safe spaces, it should be that men must become tolerant of it in their spaces!!

If anyone who is not born a woman wants live as a woman, great, go for it! It doesn’t make you a woman though. If it were so simple I would choose to identify as male in the workplace so I could get the increased salary, not be passed over for promotions in case I go off on maternity leave etc. Doesn’t work like that though does it!!! Shame Hmm

terryleather · 04/02/2018 18:32

I always feel uncomfortable when I give in and rise to the bait of a GF on the FWR boards...I can never quite shake the feeling that we're helping them to a happy ending and it would also explain why they disappear fairly quickly...

Soubriquet · 04/02/2018 18:34

I don't identify as a woman...I am a woman.

Oh shit does that mean I'm a man?!

Bring on the pay rise. Right all you wimmin, get that make up on, get that hair gorgeous, wear those heels and get back in the kitchen like your supposed to. The man I.e. ME has spoken

DullAndOld · 04/02/2018 18:34

yes I had to use the mens loos not long ago, and if anyone challenged me I was gonna say 'but I identify as a man'...Grin

Interestingly my transwoman friend said that the main difference she noticed after 'becoming a woman' was that people stopped listening to her...

HairyBallTheorem · 04/02/2018 18:35

Dear MikePeterson, if your friend has a penis, then your friend is a man. HTH.

EllenRipley · 04/02/2018 18:35

@MikePeterson
Thank you, Series28, transgendered women are not 'pretending' to be women, they are women.

See, this is the massive crux of this massive issue, Mike. Your friend has the right to identify as a woman and I would defend that right. I also have no problem believing and accepting that this is an innate, biological 'impulse' in many cases - and even when it isn't I still would have no problem with anyone who was compelled to identify as female.

But if you are born with a penis, you were born, and are, male. If you then become transgender, you are a transgender woman. Which, I'm afraid, still fundamentally sets you 'apart' from women. I've no doubt there is a horrible amount of bigotry, transphobia and misunderstanding. I don't feel part of that because I hold these views. Perhaps it is simply because transgender women do not, will not or cannot understand why women are reacting to this. There are some very valid reasons and perhaps she should take the time to try and explore and understand these.

Counselling might also help.

brownandorange · 04/02/2018 18:36

DullandOld How sad that the only way you can comprehend that someone might not share your opinion is to question their intellect.

IAmSpartaCis · 04/02/2018 18:38

But...but...but...

Dude Bro Mike, come back!

You didn't respond to any of the questions I was desperate to see you answer!

Disgusted by all the transphobia here
BeyondWitchbitchterf · 04/02/2018 18:38

"what they truly believe in their heart"

A heart is a pump.

Or maybe that's where all the scientists looking into what causes transgenderism are going wrong? Looking at brains all this time... 🙄

GardenGeek · 04/02/2018 18:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DullAndOld · 04/02/2018 18:40

brownandorange - but your intellect IS in question if you agree with OP, who was after all a troll.

OlennasWimple · 04/02/2018 18:41

Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots

I'm glad that your friend has not had surgery and hormone treatment. I am scared by the things being done to people by the medical profession right now.

But I'm afraid that you are completely wrong that your friend is more feminine that a real woman. You might think that your friend has better hair, longer legs or whatever. But the vast majority of MN would be able to tell within about 5 seconds of being in a room with your friend, no matter what they are wearing, that they are a man (and conversely, we would all "clock" that Linda Bellos is a woman). Being a woman isn't about clothes, and make up and looking nice. It's about so so much more

Terfinater · 04/02/2018 18:41

Excellent.

Posts like these are guaranteed to peak trans some lurkers.

OvaHere · 04/02/2018 18:41

brownandorange People with penises are male is a fact not an opinion.

brownandorange · 04/02/2018 18:42

Mate, if you think they're a troll, why are you still on here?! But whatevs.

DullAndOld · 04/02/2018 18:43

I am NOT your mate. Just saying.

HairyBallTheorem · 04/02/2018 18:43

"She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots"

That's it in a nutshell, isn't it? We spend millenia fighting to be recognised as full human beings regardless of our reproductive biology, then a man shows up to tell us we're not even proper women because we don't meet his male standards of attractiveness.

Way to totally miss the whole fucking point of feminism. While demonstrating your misogyny as loud and clear as if you held up a sign saying "WOMEN: YOU EXIST SOLELY TO BE OUR FUCKTOYS, AND IF YOU DON'T MEET OUR EXACTING STANDARDS AS FUCKTOYS YOU ARE NOTHING."

OvaHere · 04/02/2018 18:44

I think brownandorange might be a dudebro.

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