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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

OP posts:
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Butterymuffin · 04/02/2018 17:29

Oh, did we never get the list of the 'wonderful differences between the genders'? I was looking forward to that. I'll go back to gender being socially imposed expectations then.

Mrsmadevans · 04/02/2018 17:29

I think the OP is having a laugh tbh.

LinoleumBlownapart · 04/02/2018 17:30

I am absolutely ok with transgender rights, there should be toilets, prison wings and crisis centres for people who have the unique experience of being transgender. As a woman I have no idea what that experience is, I have no idea what it's like to have a biological sex that doesn't match the social construction of self. It must be really difficult, I'm privileged in that I haven't had that experience. But I'm a woman, I've experienced sexual abuse, male privilege and fear. I love and trust the men in my life but as a group I don't trust men, if a man says he's a feminine and wants to be called she then that's fine, I accept that, if she is attacked and ridiculed for being that way, I'll fight that too. If she wants to access a space where I know I am free from men, I will fight that.

There is very little acceptance of masculine women and femine men, despite what people like to pretend. The world has narrow contructs and they are femine women and masculine men, if you don't fit that, you don't fit. So what option is left to people that don't fit those narrow contructs, try to make yourself fit in. Feminine men feel they must be like feminine women because there is no other option. To progress we NEED to change those opinions and contructs. But right now we are light years away from accepting feminine men and masculine women. A feminine man is not a feminine woman. She can be a she, she can feminist, she can be feminine but she's not a biological woman, she has a very different set of experiences from those of women, just as masculine women have a different set of experiences from men. It's about time transgender people start fighting to be accepted for who they are and for a place in society and stop trying to re-define another group. Women have already had to fight for hundreds of years. And still haven't yet ended that fight.

There can be two fights at the same time, they could speak up for and support each other, but that's not happening, instead of fighting for their right to be accepted, transgender women are claiming that their unique experiences ARE that of the other marginalised group. As a result that group is being silenced and worse, attacked for not accepting the re-definition of themselves.

CisMyArse · 04/02/2018 17:31

Mike, if you really want to help and support your mate, then you should encourage them to speak up against Trans Activists who are screeching about their rights as "Women, Transwomen are WOMEN" and threatening rape, death by fire, stabbing, slapping and general unpleasant violence to all women who point out that we have to draw a biological line if we are to protect the laws that protect women and children.

Don't come on this board and preach to us about fucking equality when women on this board and beyond are trying to protect women's rights and educate those who are too blinkered to see the threat.

If your mate is shedding tears cos us women won't accept her be-penised existence, tell her to man-up and stop being a fucking victim. Tell them to own their Trans status and start fighting for their trans rights. I think they'll then find that they have a very welcome place here with lots of support and even admiration.

Stop fuelling their belief Mike and start fucking educating yourself. Open your eyes.

AnachronisticCorpse · 04/02/2018 17:31

And I have noticed more and more that the drum the TRAs are banging is ‘we are much more womanly women than you’.

It wasn’t that long ago that makeup and long hair and high heels were a masculine thing anyway. You’re welcome to them tbh. What a faff.

FrancisCrawford · 04/02/2018 17:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Catchedinthetefelone · 04/02/2018 17:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DullAndOld · 04/02/2018 17:32

" I think that they feel perhaps threatened. "

obviously women feel threatened by men coming into their private spaces why wouldn't they?
And no it is not analogous with the position of gays 20 years ago, what nonsense.

Collidascope · 04/02/2018 17:32

Nice to see Mike following the tradition of being a complete misogynist about 'presenting feminine,' being utterly unable to back up his arguments with logic and without ad hominem attacks, and giving the circular definition of woman which completely relies on the original, dictionary meaning of woman but pretends not to in order that TIMs can jam themselves unceremoniously into the category.

LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 04/02/2018 17:33

And Mike and all the other fucking handmaidens out there, if you're still listening..........

If you want to be taken seriously.....have the fucking courage of your convictions and have a proper debate.

Your refusal to answer some very fucking straight forward, basic questions makes you look like you have no actual argument.

It's an incredibly male thing to do ya know....

Shouting women down, and abusing us for having an opinion.
Telling us we're not doing womanhood/feminism right, claiming you know better....

Any woman who's been in a relationship with a sexist abusive arsehole can recognise these tactics as simply males abusing women.

If transwomen want to be women....they should fucking drop the sexist male priviledge of shouting women down, and listen to us instead...

WitchIwasaWitch18 · 04/02/2018 17:35

This reply has been deleted

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Lovesagin · 04/02/2018 17:36

I can't read anything written by someone who thinks is women have penises, sorry.

iamawoman · 04/02/2018 17:36

Why is it more acceptable for men to delude themselves that they can be women and vice versa than to be accepted as more fem men

Collidascope · 04/02/2018 17:36

Also nice to see him co-opting the 'you wouldn't say this about an ethnic minority so why is it ok to shut out men??' argument, while ignoring the 98% sex crime statistic, and refusing to apply the race argument to 'if white people started identifying as black people and accusing black people of cis privilege and cos racism' logical conclusion.

Mrsmiguelcervantes · 04/02/2018 17:36

Our feminist ancestors would do not such thing as spit in us for our intolerance.

They, like us, understood that women are oppressed by their biology and would be utterly horrified at the state of feminism in 2018, the speed at which men have colonised womanhood, the pure hatred for women that is still rife in society.

And they would be right behind us, adding their voices to the growing chorus that gets louder every day, that will never stop speaking the truth.

Men cannot become women.

Women do not have penises.

Then they’d spit on you, you nasty, misogynistic little man.

LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 04/02/2018 17:36

Mike is an all inclusive, self identifying, lady penis.

RebeccaWrongDaily · 04/02/2018 17:38

if you really care for this person get them some psychiatric help.

Stop pretending that they will ever be accepted by women as a woman.
on the whole

Lesbians don't want to fuck her
Straight men don't want to either
nor do gay men
nor do straight women.

It is not helpful to do this to someone when they are mentally ill.

iamawoman · 04/02/2018 17:38

We should ahut these arguments down and just ask the poster how they know they are male because i bet they cant answer it without resorting to stereotypes

gussyfinknottle · 04/02/2018 17:39

Op. I am not a cisgendered woman. I'm a woman. If your friend does not want to have their penis cut off they are a transvestite. Fine with me but don't pretend they are a woman. If they are transitioning to having their penis removed and to getting a GRC? Also fine by me and I would support them. As long as they don't tell me what to do and how to feel. I am a woman. Not a ciswoman.

Charolais · 04/02/2018 17:40

Does anyone ever answer the question of whether Rachel Dolezal is white or black?

Dolezal is a white woman who tapped into the advantage of being ‘black’ in a predominately white area of the country. She was a fraud.

NotDavidTennant · 04/02/2018 17:42

And the new world record holder for fastest time for their mask to slip - in a stunning time of just 10 minutes and 57 seconds - is Mike Peterson!

MikePeterson Sun 04-Feb-18 16:39:01
"DullAndOld, I strongly disagree with no platforming."

MikePeterson Sun 04-Feb-18 16:49:58
"Enjoy being arrested when you try to express your intolerance"

Patodp · 04/02/2018 17:42

jcsp compared this objection to transgender to the plight of homosexuals fighting against persecution.

The problem with that inaccurate comparison is

A man who is sexually attracted to a man, is irrefutably and undeniably attracted to men. They are not and never have insisted that I become attracted to the same sex and they never demanded I change my own identity to fit in with their sex life.
They can now live free from persecution and discrimination. Well done LGB activism.

A man who says he is a woman is lying. Is expecting us all to go along with it, change my own knowledge of material reality and bend over backwards to accommodate their beliefs which I do not share. They should be able to live free from persecution and discrimination but don't expect me to give up hard fought women's rights to accommodate a man lying to me about also being a woman. I do not believe it.

The T have successfully hijacked the LGB struggle and reframed it, to compare this to that. They've appropriated womanhood and the struggle for gay rights. It's not the same.
It's completely different.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 04/02/2018 17:42

Some should keep their thoughts to themselves.
Not when the thoughts are about something serious affecting half the population

As my mother, and many mothers, say... If you’ve nothing nice to say then don’t say anything.
There is nothing wrong with stating facts

Whilst not defending the shouters and those ranting about penises on women etc etc I think that they feel perhaps threatened.
Yes, I feel threatened by the thought of women with penises, i.e. MEN, in women's spaces

Most of us are happy in our own skins and our binary sexual situation. Some are born different, get over it and don’t be shitty to others.
So why is acceptable to be shitty to women, for men to be allowed in women's only spaces? It works both ways. Why is it acceptable for women to be referred to as cis women? Surely women and trans women explains the situation perfectly.

LangCleg · 04/02/2018 17:42

Mike is having a testerical mantrum while feigning knobjectivity. It's a struggle for him, which is why he does a lot of he-peating and mansplaining when he's actually trying to transplain.

You can't blame Mike. His Daily Male views are the clear result of testosterone poisoning. It's a common affliction.

Poppyred85 · 04/02/2018 17:43

Can someone help me out please? Driving me mad...What was the kids TV programme in the nineties with a little girl in it who used to say “you’re so mean.”
These posts always remind of that. I’m thinking it was Just William??

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