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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
CisMyArse · 04/02/2018 17:16

Oh where to start....

NauticalDisaster · 04/02/2018 17:16

Lions are not tigers, piranhas are not dolphins, and transwomen are not women.

Science is real, biology matters, and you cannot change your sex.

Facts may be upsetting but your efforts are probably better put to use helping your friend; attacking women on Mumsnet then flouncing because you realise you have no sound arguments and cannot hope to debate the women here isn't helping you or your friend.

Flightywoman · 04/02/2018 17:16

Why do TIMs need to change what 'woman' means? Why don't they try to change or expand the meaning of 'man'?

And WHY does it always get brought down to tits/lipstick/dresses/pink/etc. It's so reductive.

No hormones, no surgery is a man in a dress nothing more.

If any man is serious about trying to live as a woman they need to do more than stuffing a bra and giggling in a girlish way.

expatinscotland · 04/02/2018 17:17

'She is a woman with a penis'.

Nope.

Don't want penises in female spaces.

nocoolnamesleft · 04/02/2018 17:18

Gender doesn't really exist. It is a construct of society, whose main purpose is to keep women down. Transgender people therefore belong to a number of different groups:

People with true gender dysphoria. Which is a horrendous condition to have. I absolutely support my taxes being spent on counselling, support, and for true gender dysphoria provision of full surgery, to help these poor sods to align their body to the closest possible to that which they feel they should have been born with. This group tend to be thrown under the bus by the TRAs, coming up with such delightful terms as "truescum".

People who do not fit in well with society's strict gender stereotypes. These people are, like women, being oppressed by gender. Get rid of the gender stereotypes, and accept that men can wear skirts and make up, and women can do science. And everyone will be a lot happier.

Homosexuals being oppressed by society, who find it easier to profess themselves genderfluid than to be open about their sexuality. This group being pushed into transgenderism is actually profoundly homophobic. We need to fix society so that being homosexual is fine.

Autogynophiles. This is the group doing most of the shouting and violence. These are the ones yelling about "suck my ladydick", threatening rape, and demanding access to women's safe spaces. They are profoundly misogynistic, homophobic, and bigoted against those with gender dysphoria. They are fetishists, who demand that others indulge their fetish.

Please don't call me cis. This is misgendering me, because I do not believe in the genders used to oppress my sex. I am a biological woman. It is my biology for which I am oppressed. Gender is one of the ways in which I am oppressed.

(And no, I'm not wearing makeup, and I'm sitting here wearing trousers. But I am a woman)

MountainsofMars · 04/02/2018 17:18

The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

No. THey knew that woman as a class were oppressed because of our role in the reproduction of the species.

The Pankhursts were good socialists. THey understood class analysis.

Millicent Garrett Fawcett understood how women were oppressed because of what was "between our legs" and she was an activist against the Contagious Diseases Acts.

Learn a bit; read a bit of women's history.

Mrsmadevans · 04/02/2018 17:19

I wish I understood what you were saying OP .
I have no problem with people who are genuinely transgender. I truly believe they are tormented souls and should be helped to cope .
However having your penis removed and plastic surgery to give you boobs does not make you female......FACT.

wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool · 04/02/2018 17:20

I hate it when they use the race analogy. There is no one racial group that commits sexual crime more than another (proportional to population;it would actually be white men if we were to go by simple numbers) if there was then there would indeed be some difficult conversations to have around that. However one sex is very much more active than the other sex in both sexually violent and fatally violent crime. That means that if you were to carry out a proper risk assessment it would be clear that male people are more dangerous than female people. That’s it really. It’s not even complicated.

Add to this the emerging fact that there are a disproportionate number of TIMS in prison serving sentences for violent crime and sexual crime and the reasons for sex segregated spaces become even clearer. There’s no perfect system of course, but we can only act on evidence and the evidence points to it being reasonable to keep male bodied people at arms length if at all possible, if you are a woman or a child. There’s also a good case for men to keep other men at arms length, but that’s a different conversation with a different solution.

LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 04/02/2018 17:21

WHY WON'T THEY EVER PROPERLY DEBATE WITH US???

HONESTLY I AM SO, SO, SO FUCKING ANGRY AT THE LACK OF ENGAGEMENT, THE GASLIGHTING, THE ABUSE, THE VICTIMHOOD CLAIMING FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST MISOGYNISTIC ARSEHOLES.

WOMEN DON'T HAVE PENISES.

WOMEN DON'T HAVE PENISES.

A DRESS AND HIGH HEELS DOES NOT A WOMAN MAKE.

BIOLOGY IS A FUCKING REALITY.

SILENCING WOMEN IS A BIGOTED, EVIL AND MISOGYNISTIC ACT.

IF TRANSWOMEN REALLY WERE WOMEN, THEY'D SUPPORT OUR FIGHT AGAINST OPPRESSION AS A RESULT OF OUR BIOLOGY.

INSTEAD THEY WANT US TO DENY IT.
Angry

(And yes...the caps are deliberate.....I've reached peak trans so many times that even the fucking alps doesn't have as many)

MountainsofMars · 04/02/2018 17:21

Sorry for the multiple posts, I'm having trouble with my browser.

Awwww, ladybrane. True feminine women aren't very good with technology, are they?

Balearica · 04/02/2018 17:22

Will someone explain to me why wearing a frock, heels and some lippy apparently makes you a woman because I'm not getting that.

Otterseatpuffinsdontthey · 04/02/2018 17:22

Basic Biology
XX Chromosomes = female (uterus/vagina/periods/pregnancy/cervical cancer etc.).
XY Chromosomes = male (penis/scrotum/sperm/no periods/no pregnancy/no cervical cancer etc.).
Man determines sex of baby (has both X+Y chromosomes)
Woman cannot determine sex of baby (she has only X chromosomes).

Serialweightwatcher · 04/02/2018 17:22

So when my child was in fancy dress today as a dinosaur.... He actually IS a dinosaur???

😂😂😂

WhollyFather · 04/02/2018 17:23

I wouldn't normally pile on but I can't resist this one.

'She is a woman with a penis'

No such animal. He is a man pretending to be a woman, and insisting he is right even when everybody else knows he is wrong. Up to him but I'm not going to support him in his fantasy and Twitter users aren't going to make me.

MyBrilliantDisguise Rachel Dolezal is Caucasian, always has been, always will be, whatever colour she chooses to dye her skin.

theHitcher · 04/02/2018 17:24

Nah mate, your friend's a bloke. Simples.

WitchIwasaWitch18 · 04/02/2018 17:24

What is he on about?

If you have a penis you are a male.

If you have a vagina you are a female.

Wishing it were different does not make it so.

I do not want men in female changing rooms. You have your own area.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 04/02/2018 17:24

Exactly what is a “feminine image”

I suspect it is a male fantasy of what femininity and a woman are; long hair, big tits, cleavage, tight clothes, hair playing, that sort of thing.

Surely the OP was a wind-up?

donquixotedelamancha · 04/02/2018 17:26

She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Oh FFS. My daughter is 4 and she already tells me that 'boys don't wear pink' and 'that boy must be a girl because he has long hair'. Even as a clueless bloke I don't want my DDs growing up thinking you have to "present a feminine image" to be real woman.

There is transphobia on here; some posters are rude dickheads. Most of the discssion, however, is legitimate debate. It is not bigotry to raise concerns about women's sport or women only shortlists. I would add that I really wish everybody could discuss transsexuals and transvestites respectfully- no matter how high passions run.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege

This competitive privilege shit is ridiculous. Just because transvestites experience bigotry does not mean someone else enjoys a privilege over them. It is idiotic to claim that ALL members of a particular group are privileged (unless describing wealth) and to use that to erode their rights.

The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

I really hate the term mansplaining. I think it's lazy and sexist; but what else can you say about a bloke telling women they are doing feminism wrong.

Apologies for the rant.

Patodp · 04/02/2018 17:26

We are soo not a minority view.
With every Transgender issue made public is a new wave of peak trans. Because it's bollocks. We all know it.

Bullying and silencing and #nodebate has worked so far but it will not work for so many of us, for so long.

TheShaniaTwainExperience · 04/02/2018 17:26

Me thinks Mike is a gay man in denial, with a lot of internalised homophobia, trying to use transgender ideology as a cover up so he can be in love with his ‘friend’ and call himself het.

You’re gay, mike! And that’s OKAY! Stop pretending women have dicks though. It’s not cool.

AnachronisticCorpse · 04/02/2018 17:28

The sooner we get to the point where we no longer think of clothes and hairstyles and makeup choices as ‘female’ or ‘male’, the sooner all this nonsense will be over.

I’m following a number of GNC males on Twitter who are absolute allies in this and are horrified by the assertion that men are women if they present in a feminine way. It’s so reductive and backwards.

crunchymint · 04/02/2018 17:29

Seriously, if your friend is crying all day about what is being said by strangers on an internet forum, then your friend needs to come off social media.

jcsp · 04/02/2018 17:29

I’m sorry your friend has been upset by others.

Some should keep their thoughts to themselves.

As my mother, and many mothers, say... If you’ve nothing nice to say then don’t say anything.

Whilst not defending the shouters and those ranting about penises on women etc etc I think that they feel perhaps threatened.

Wind the clock back 20 years and similar things were commonly said about gays. For them time has, fortunately, moved on. Although prejudice is still out there.

Trans people are in the same situation gays were some years ago.

I don’t pretend to understand all aspects of gender, sexuality, chromosomes etc.

They don’t deserve pity but sympathy and understanding, they didn’t choose their situation.

Most of us are happy in our own skins and our binary sexual situation. Some are born different, get over it and don’t be shitty to others.

Thanks

NotTerfNorCis · 04/02/2018 17:29

@MikePeterson So 'woman' is defined by a collection of social stereotypes rather than by biology? Don't you see how unhelpful that is to progress in women's rights and status?

HarveyKietelRabbit · 04/02/2018 17:29

I see 'the inside' of what is happening but don't want to say how as I've already been disciplined at work and have no social media at all attached to my name.

What I'm seeing:

Autistic men who think 'becoming' a woman will make them more socially adept and empathic. Having an hour appointment with a GI clinic and it being agreed they're trans and approved for transition.

Autistic men changing their name to a female one and wearing dresses while still having a beard and we're supposed to pretend that's 'gender queer' or something rather than a sign of confusion.

A GI clinic with not one non- LGBTQ member of staff, no-one questioning whether that is sufficiently diverse or questioning that many workers clearly have an agenda. Those workers that do don't last long there.

Women with borderline PD who grew up being abused as girls then in adulthood saying they want to be men (ummm, maybe because they think that offers protection?) being approved for hormones and surgery then becoming 'men' who express fantasies of raping women (though they can't as still don't have a penis) and nobody in the GI clinic thinking 'this is a really messed up person'. FFS

Women who were bullied and abused by peers and family for being 'butch lesbians' now wanting to be 'men' and being approved for surgery.

Dangerous sex offenders wanting to 'transition' as it offers access to women.

To be honest - that's a relatively small group. What is far, far more common is men in prison claiming to identify as a different gender just because they want to take the absolute piss out of the prison system. Because now they can. And then they're posted about on MN and other sites as 'trans' when they're not at all.

But the nonsense 'self-ID' stuff means they're lumped in with people with genuine GD.

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