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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

OP posts:
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13
JacquesHammer · 04/02/2018 17:00

Oh thank GOODNESS a man came to tell us how we're all doing womanhood wrong.

She is a woman with a penis

So that's a man then

TSSDNCOP · 04/02/2018 17:01

Without dammit.

Series28 · 04/02/2018 17:01

OP why does your friend have no interest in having surgical/hormonal procedures to help her to transition to the [sex] she identifies with? Has she actually been diagnosed as having gender dysphoria? Or is she happy living a life as a male confirming to female gender stereotypes? ie she likes pink and makeup but is happy having a penis and growing facial hair?

I have a 4 year old DS many inc friends/family/school have tried to label him as transgender, hes not, he dosnt have a problem but they do.
He used to say 'I want to be a girl' after weeks of panicking about how we were going to deal with it we realised he dosnt actually want to be a girl, he dosnt want to have periods or a womb etc he just wants to play makeovers or barbies with big sis instead of football or cars with big bro and he wants pink pyjamas instead of blue... His sex is and will always be male, sure for simplicity we could say his gender is feminine.
Gender dysphoria is a medical condition, the mind and body are not correlated theese people deserve respect, safety and medical help, im not sure attempting to correct the body is a better option than attempting to correct the mind. People on mumsnet are opposed to the self ID problem not to people with gender dysphoria reciveing medical support and being treated with respect in everyday life.

HerFemaleness · 04/02/2018 17:01

I got as far as “mind of a woman”.

Get lost with your neurosexism mate.

sameoldtat · 04/02/2018 17:02

Eh...

iamawoman · 04/02/2018 17:02

Yes mike are you sure you are a man / male ? Because if it isnt your penis which tells you ao what is it?

acatcalledjohn · 04/02/2018 17:03

A penis has no inherent gender

Biology would be inclined to disagree there.

As would the entire fucking collection of mammals.

viques · 04/02/2018 17:03

I think that for many women who like me were born women the transgender debate has really stoked old fires that we thought were dying down. I have no problem identifying myself as a feminist, and have the hurt feelings to prove it, I have worked in places where women were constantly the butt of sexist remarks, have been patronised to infinity and beyond by ignorant men with all their brain cells in their crotch, have lived through the time when women having unequal pay and opportunities was seen as the status quo, when women had no rights to a mortgage in their own name , needing to get a male signature on financial agreements etc etc etc.

And, in my ignorance I had thought that in the new millennium things were getting a bit better, that many, not all, but more than before ,men accepted that women were equal human beings, that more women were getting paid by their value not by their chromosomes, that women had access to good educational opportunities and careers. And that we were much closer to living in an equal society, albeit one where two women a week are murdered by their violent male partners.

But no. It now appears that we women are not equal, we don't have equal rights, and that our position in society, far from being on a par with men has slipped. Now we are not just second class citizens, we are third class citizens. And the reason is that a sub class of men have arbitrarily decided that not only are they 'women' but they are a superior sort of woman, and that being this superior sort of woman- who is lucky enough to have that ultimate status symbol of a penis - means that their wishes and rights take precedence over the hard won wishes and rights of not born with penis women.

I have sympathy with people who genuinely feel that they are born in the wrong body, and who go through hell and high water to change themselves, but I have no sympathy at all with those who choose to declare themselves as women, demand ' rights' that impinge on other people's rights, and shout down anyone who objects .

So if that is transphobic, then sorry, then that's what I am.

RubyLennoxExists · 04/02/2018 17:03

Please don't call me a cis gendered woman - I am a woman, that description does not require qualification.

Wanderingwomb · 04/02/2018 17:03

I would not be surprised if there is an influx of MRA type posts here as this issue gains traction in the media.

DullAndOld · 04/02/2018 17:04

^^ rubylennox from 'Behind the Scenes at the Museum'? ha ha

passmethewineplease · 04/02/2018 17:04

Ta-ra Mike.

FunnyOnyon · 04/02/2018 17:05

Can we please STOP with this faux-intellectual debate crap. There is no sensible debate to be had.

Get to fuck

busyboysmum · 04/02/2018 17:05

You are homophobic as well as a misogynist.

A penis is not a female sex organ. Your friend is a feminine man.

We can all see that because we don't have gender dysphoria.

Why your friend chooses to ignore reality is not my concern.

RubyLennoxExists · 04/02/2018 17:06

She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.
Being a woman is not about looking feminine, if you and your friend think that then you really are mistaken. Or am I gender fluid because some days I wear plain trousers and some days I wear floral frocks? Jeez

Movablefeast · 04/02/2018 17:06

A transwoman can believe and think she can conceive and give birth to a child as much as she wants with her "female brain", she can know it, believe it and demand it but it won't ever happen will it?

Because biology.

OnionKnight · 04/02/2018 17:07

This reply has been deleted

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RubyLennoxExists · 04/02/2018 17:07

Dullandold yes, my favourite novel ever Smile

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 04/02/2018 17:07

MN has been identified as a hive of TERF-y activity so this kind of thread will start to ramp up no doubt.

Luckily vile creatures such as Andi Dier AKA Socialist Sex Doll AKA @DeerCr0ssing are helping the world to peak trans and see that the TransActivists are just MRAs [in no disguise at all].

FairNotFair · 04/02/2018 17:07

I'm done here. I take comfort in the fact that you are holders of a minority opinion, doomed to be outvoted. It's 2018 and the world is going to march on without you into a bright new future. Enjoy being arrested when you try to express your intolerance in public by demanding a woman with a penis fail to show your required level of shame over her body.

Confused Cool story, bro
OrderMeACurry · 04/02/2018 17:07

It's attitudes like yours, @MikePeterson, and that of your dear friend that is making people hate us right now.

All the best,
A pissed off transwoman

MountainsofMars · 04/02/2018 17:08

She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots

Just for that have this Biscuit then bugger off. How dare you ask for sympathy and then rank women's femininity?

Lesbophobic and sexist, much?

And PS: a male body is a male body, not a female body just because someone thinks they are 'really' a woman.

"Woman" is not an empty category, which can mean whatever someone wants it to mean.

k2p2k2tog · 04/02/2018 17:08

She is a woman with a penis

No she's not. She's a man. Or a transwoman. If I met your friend I'd be pleasant and courteous, just as to anyone else. I'm not "phobic" of anyone, and really couldn't care less if your friend wants to paint their nails, wear a frock and call themselves Shirley. I would also support the rights of transpeople to have separate changing facilities and be free of discrimination and ridicule. But that does NOT mean accepting them into female spaces with open arms.

But I will not agree that someone with a penis is a woman. Because science says they're not.

AltheaTrell · 04/02/2018 17:08

Or is it that transwomen are shocked when they don't get all the privileges that they enjoyed as men... but they blame women for it.

I think Kala has it spot on.

PericardiumOne · 04/02/2018 17:08

"A penis has no inherent gender"

Jesus wept.

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