Why DO people 'believe' transwomen are women?

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

Actually why?

Because the act of 'believing' without evidence or logic is cult like ideology to me.

The repetition of 'transwomen ARE women' on twitter, facebook etc is like a mantra of a cult. Like repeating the rosary or something, and the more that it repeated, the more people double down in their thinking.

I really feel bewildered half the time now.

It feels like a cult

Like a cult or religion, I guess people are free to believe what they want.

But we are not forced to believe other people's religious beliefs; why are we being forced to believe that 'transwomen are women' and 'transmen are men', when there is no objective, material truth in that statement

It's the new Reformation, but logical thinkers, not Catholics, are being hounded out and targetted.

It's mind blowing

Some people will move heaven and earth to be what they want to be, and I admire and sympathise with them. It still doesn't make them what they want to be.

I can't imagine the anguish some people go through if they truly feel 'trapped' in the wrong body, or not the gender that science is telling them they are. It must be horrific for some, and at best tormenting for others.

I just don't agree that the rest of society can play along with the charade of someone changing gender in order to make it more realistic. I'd far rather society found a better way to accept transpeople and transpeople found a better way to accept certain limitations.

I might change my view in the future as I (and science) learn more, but for now, it's where I'm at.

brilliant

I agree except for the 'gender' when for me its 'sex'

But apart from that i think i am pretty much in the same position

The long term solution is for it to be OK for men not to be masculine and women not to be feminine. We're still going to have to deal with the mess we're in right now first though.

Yes i agree angry

As an aside, I am startin*bto think we should drop the word “gender” altogether and just use “sex”

The main problem with losing rights is it took so long to get them in the first place, and it leaves us back where we started.
This does make it clear that rights are only on loan to us. We dont actually own them, other people do.

I feel like an adult who has to ask for pocket money for every purchase.

I feel like an adult who has to ask for pocket money for every purchase.

There's women's societal status summed up in a nutshell. And then men wonder why sometimes we seem a little peeved.

Rufus, yes I agree.
Sex = anatomy
Gender = role (I don't much like that 'role' term either, what the hell is a woman's role or man's role?)

Seems to be a much clearly definition of the two these days as they're no longer synonymous. Getting quite worried that it'll soon be a problem to identify myself as 'me' ;-)

Except that the rhetoric does sometimes care about the materiality of their body. I saw a link to a site in Facebook today from someone looking to get other people to pay for ‘gender confirming’ surgeries. So the anatomical and biological things do matter, but only when it suits the trans narrative.

“I feel like an adult who has to ask for pocket money for every purchase.”

I wish you could “like” posts on here.....

Are you still female if you've had a hysterectomy?

I genuinely hate this argument. Women who have had hysterectomies are obviously still women. They are adult human females, regardless of which parts they have had removed for whatever reason.

And intersex does not prove there are more than 2 sexes. Intersex is always brought up in trans arguments but they are nothing to do with each other.

Because it’s supposedly PC , right on, cool, liberal thing to believe or kid yourself to believe, or say, to not risk being called transphobic.

Are you still female if you've had a hysterectomy?

God in bloody heaven. Yes. Because you still belong to the reproductive class with the potential to produce large gametes.

When we discover the existence of a third type of gamete - other than sperm and ova - perhaps we can talk about sex on a spectrum or fertility issues. Since that won't happen, human beings will remain a sexually dimorphic species made of men and women.

Discussion would be sonny he easier if we had a pinned post explaining class analysis. Yes, women who have had hysterectomies are still women because they belong to the class of human that produces eggs not the class of human that produces sperm

Well maybe Bert. But if people need class analysis before they understand women who have hysterectomies are still women then I just want to give up.

Don't forget women with PCOS! They're apparently not women either, despite that being a condition that you can only have if you're a woman.

(Was waiting for trolly troll troll to get to that.)

I might be very naive here, but how does a man know he actually feels like a woman inside? I only have experience of 'self' and I assume other men feel similarly to myself, but I don't know this.
I can often find myself in situations where I do not feel in harmony with other men (boozy nights out) and situations where I do (football). But that's like trying to prove that we all see the colour red in the same way.
Equally, there are times when I feel more in harmony with women... but that's only because I make yet more assumptions that the feelings I have are like women have... how can I possibly know?

If I spent ALL my time being so in tune with women, and never in tune with men, then I face new problem: Women don't all think and feel alike, and neither do men, so how can I possibly feel in tune with women all the time?

So - how does a transperson know they feel like the other sex?

They don't
Nobody knows what another person feels like. They can only feel like they imagine a woman to be. A males interpretation of a woman.

If we weren't so conditioned to assign feelings with our sex, then we'd not end up liking fluffy things and assuming that's our feminine side, or liking to kick a ball and assume that's our masculine side, and being pressured (consciously or otherwise) into promoting the masculine feelings and suppressing the feminine ones (or rather those we are told are masculine and feminine feelings).

I think we could do with a hashtag that encapsulates our argument - GRAs have "nodebate / notadebate". Ideally something that expresses the idea that gender identity is either one thing or another. Personally I find it insulting that a biological man can dress in his male clothes, work Mon-Fri & then claim he is a Transwoman at the weekend. It's insulting to women for all the reasons previously discussed. It's insulting to men because it's deceitful. It's insulting to the Trans community because it implies that it's not important, that it's a game.
It also needs to be fully inclusive of all Trans people at any point in the process of a permanent transition, or who are contemplating doing so.

I thought perhaps something like GenderIsNotACostume.

Sorry, just a bit of a brain dump really.

I could not fathom the assertion that crossdressing is a form of trans either, other than transvestism. To my rather simple mind, it seem that clothing is a human invention that was originally born out of necessity / function and then expanded to include form. Surely that means if you find the look or feel of clothing designed for men or for women, it doesn't matter and doesn't make you a man or a woman, unless you argue that the design of male and female clothing stems from the inner preferences of both, and thus if you prefer women's clothing, you're more 'female'. Doesn't quite seem right to me. Men wear kilts, and it's legitimised by not calling it a skirt. No problem with that, but it's a form of skirt however you look at it. What's the problem?

I am really not convinced at all that liking to dress in women's clothes means anything other than you're a fairly brave bloke prepared to go against the norm and you like what you like!

Women don't seem to have an issue wearing our shirts or shorts and feeling 'blokey'.

I'd really like to see a society, as I say, that was gender neutral. Not a popular view with some here it seems, but there you go. When we get to a point where a male person can wear a dress and make up and a female person can have cropped hair and wear a three piece trouser suit and no one turns a hair, then perhaps people may feel more comfortable with the bodies they're in and not want to alter them. We don't know because we've never been down that path. I think we currently live in a society in which gender stereotypes are being ever more closely enforced.

I agree with this. 'Gender neutral' to me would mean nothing feminine though. Like the parents who bring up their kids gender neutral and won't let them wear pink or blue and stick them in white or yellow all the time. Bit nuts.

I would like 'gender' to be abolished totally..so men could wear dresses and makeup if they so chose, without being stared at or outcasted. I do feel that if things were more relaxed with sex stereotypes, we would not have thousands of people (especially children) deciding that they are the opposite sex because they have interests that are usually associated with the opposite sex. Its ridiculous!

Surely that means if you find the look or feel of clothing designed for men or for women, it doesn't matter and doesn't make you a man or a woman, unless you argue that the design of male and female clothing stems from the inner preferences of both, and thus if you prefer women's clothing, you're more 'female'.

Autogynephilia isn't really about getting turned on by clothes in isolation. It's about fetishing womanhood. Sexual clothing is just the manifestation of 'womanhood'.

'Gender neutral' to me would mean nothing feminine though or masculine. Like..everything beige (figure of speech)