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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour against transphobia group - thread 2

917 replies

QuentinSummers · 24/01/2018 21:14

Follow on from
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3144285-Labour-Against-Transphobia-Facebook-group?msgid=75082467#75082467

OP posts:
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36
WhenWillThisMadnessEnd · 25/01/2018 12:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ereshkigal · 25/01/2018 12:59

Love Ali Bee!

boatyardblues · 25/01/2018 13:03

I think it's important for people who would normally vote labour to continue to do so. Please don't let them win on this, we can't let them push people out of the party and turn it into an anti feminist echo chamber.

You know that slogan “no taxation without representation”? Well that’s how I feel about Labour - if I have voice or proper representation from the party, they don’t get my vote. If they can sort the current clusterfuck out and start representing the needs of women (sex, not gender), I might reconsider. Until then, they can fuck right off. I’d join any enlightened party that comes up with a sensible mainfesto that represents women properly.

Cistersaredoingitforthemselves · 25/01/2018 13:12

Changed names

Clocking in

LefkosiaTigers · 25/01/2018 13:13

Hear, hear, boatyard.

And applause for the post on bravery by Elisaveta.

BiologyMatters · 25/01/2018 13:15

Name changed! Im not voting for labour. I thought they were along my lines but not any more. Everyone's as bad as each other. Nobody working for the common interest and for the good of a whole society.

LangCleg · 25/01/2018 13:15

I think it's important for people who would normally vote labour to continue to do so. Please don't let them win on this, we can't let them push people out of the party and turn it into an anti feminist echo chamber.

I said something similar to this to my husband the other day. His reply?

"Mate, the Tories are going to fuck over the bottom 20% of the population like always. But Labour are going to fuck over 51% of the population and are doubling down on that intention while the Tories look as though they're rowing back. If it's a numbers game, why would we vote Labour?"

I've been ruminating on it for days. DH and I are both agreed we could never actually vote Tory, but we really don't see why we shouldn't withhold our votes from Labour.

KissMaCis · 25/01/2018 13:32

I didn’t vote labour 2017. You need redlines. Mine was Corbyn. Otherwise you are just another battered wife coming back to the abuser and expecting them to change. I’m not saying I’ll never vote labour again, but it might take 20 years. Hey, great documentary on Yputube about hard left called Labour The Wilderness Years.

LefkosiaTigers · 25/01/2018 13:33

Fair point, LangCleg.

Also, there are Tory voters who are not happy with the GRA (or the Brexit incompetence). I personally know some who are switching to another party. So a Tory victory is by no means certain even with the current shambles driving people to leave Labour.

KissMaCis · 25/01/2018 13:40

Labour is far more pro brexit. Corbyn is a Bennite. Anyone who thinks he will kill Brexit is kidding themselves. He did nothing for the remain campaign. It’s all in Shipmans book. Which I recommend fully.

Surfandterf · 25/01/2018 13:54

My fear though is that we just won't be represented at all. Do we make such a large number that they will bother to make adjustments? If everyone that opposes refrains who will represent our views? I feel screwed on this matter whichever I look at.

My fear is that labours desire to win young voters overides common sense and they're more than happy to indulge the no platforming craze and it's Ilk, this has been slowly coming to universities,if you look over the past few years the intolerance has been building. It wasn't too recent that the NUS made a man women's officer.

BetsyM00 · 25/01/2018 13:59

This site is quite interesting: www.votenone.org.uk/protest_votes_count.html

With a heavy heart, this is what I will be doing in every election from now on, until there is at least one sensible party that actually represents women.

MsMartini · 25/01/2018 14:07

XXFiles That is wonderful - and sums up so many of the arguments. Thank you. I wish I dared share it widely.....

JessicaEccles · 25/01/2018 14:16

I think it's important for people who would normally vote labour to continue to do so. Please don't let them win on this, we can't let them push people out of the party and turn it into an anti feminist echo chamber

but it's just like Brexit. Labour are not standing up against it- because they think 'Fuck them- they'll vote labour anyway so we can afford to fuck them off'...

LefkosiaTigers · 25/01/2018 14:21

Jessica Eccles I agree. I think that voting Labour gives tacit support to both Brexit and trans nonsense now. Why vote for a party when they support things I fundamentally disagree on?

ChemistryGeek · 25/01/2018 14:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pamish · 25/01/2018 14:28

If only the Women's Equality Party was proper feminist....
.

Justabunchofcunts · 25/01/2018 14:38

Yes Corbyn is totally pro Brexit.

RedToothBrush · 25/01/2018 14:49

Re Labour v Tories atm.

In my opinion Labour are shifting left and more authoritarian at present. Not much is suggesting different. The left have control of the NEC. Momentum didn't get as many of their candidates through selection but they do have an issue with not selecting women as their candidates. You are still seeing threats to deselect 'blairites' too.

By contrast the Conservatives went full on UKIP and authoritarian and have hit a massive problem which the election showed up.

There are no more votes to be found on the right. The Tories need younger voters and they need women. By definition they are more liberal and more left leaning. So they will have to go back that way or face oblivion.

Certainly Brexit will continue to throw up political realities that they will be forced to confront. Hence a slow row back is somewhat inevitable.

Unless there is a leadership challenge (Apparently the 1922 committee are only a couple of letters away from triggering one)

In which case all bets are off

A leadership challenge will do one of two things: force the party more liberal or force it even further right again.

The parliamentary party is more liberal because they know the death of the party will be caused by going further right - they'll never win the youth over. The grass roots is just basically old rich white male authoritarians now so they will naturally favour someone from the right. A leadership battle will be about Tory MPs scrambling to knock out the most extreme candidates to stop it being decided by the grassroots as far as possible.

For now, I think its a case of trying to stop Labour drifting anymore authoritarian leaning and trying to ensure the conservatives do see that the ukip vote is a dead end.

That means making noise. Lots of it. Apathy is what got up here and the loud mouths are driving politicians out of fear. Shout about what you want and what is important - dont just be critical be constructive. Don't let them take your support for granted. Be entitled!

Where the centre of gravity of every party now stands is NOT fixed at all. They are moving more than they have in a long time.

FWIW as it stands I don't see another GE on the cards. Yet. Things are unstable and could suddenly change but right now, there is an opportunity to make a fuss.

Do whatever will get you noticed.

KissMaCis · 25/01/2018 14:58

Corbyn is now lobbying for Hizbollah. His support for disgusting misogynistic murderous regimes holds no restraint. I’m watching the debate. I have jewish friends and family, no wonder they are desperately trying to move to Israel. What a mess. Hizbollah are Iranian too. No support for any of those brave women in Iran. What the hell is the purpose of labour now? I wish I could rip up my membership several times a day. I haven’t been a member for 18 months.

RedToothBrush · 25/01/2018 15:36

www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/01/i-m-labour-party-member-nuanced-views-momentum-i-m-blairite?amp&__twitter_impression=true
I’m a Labour party member with nuanced views – but to Momentum I’m a “Blairite”

More on Labour party members feeling marginalised or otherwise forced out. Not TRA related but a general reflection of the rise if the authoritarian left.

I expect to see much more of this.

KissMaCis · 25/01/2018 15:42

Hornsey is a mess. A total mess. I feel for friends who have tried to fight the Mobmentum take over. Labour stopping housing being built. Orwell must be chuckling his ass off.

pamish · 25/01/2018 17:09

@KissMaCis, Haringey won't be Momentum. It's a coalition that had to stop the wretched HDV. The new council after May will have loads of centrist and some right-ish LP councillors. I don't want to live in a Momentum-run borough either but they were very useful in organising the councilor selection process. We haven't picked only their members, by any definition. I get very pissed by them being given credit for all organising, it's shabby reporting that is (sometimes) just deliberate scaremongering against the socialist utopia that's on its way.

KissMaCis · 25/01/2018 17:16

Socialist utopias like Venezuela? I support HDV. Get housing built. My mate Nora is having the worst time. She’s so brave and it’s breaking my heart. She’s such a decent person, and the abuse is horrific. Utterly shameful.

pamish · 25/01/2018 17:21

@KissMaCis we'll have to disagree on this. HDV would have done nothing for the 3000 homeless that the Cabinet keep going on about. Giving away our land, no way.

Don't want to divert topic.