Is it bullying to say trans women are men?

[WeeBisom]

I’d appreciate advice about this issue, because the last couple of days I feel like I’m going insane. I have a male partner who generally doesn’t give a shit about trans issues because, as he fully acknowledges, it doesn’t really affect or bother him. Fine. I mentioned to him that a member of the Labour Parry in the UK had been suspended for bullying and harassment. Her crime? She tweeted “trans women are men” and “women don’t have dicks”. My partner responded immediately with “well that’s a really mean thing for her to say, that sounds like bullying and harassment to me.”

I then replied that she didn’t actually target these statements at anyone in particular, and that, furthermore, her statements were just objective facts (especially if you replace man with male). I then asked how it could possibly be bullying to simply declare biological truths.

I shit you not, my partner (who is not an idiot), said that saying “trans women are men” is the same as (and I quote) saying “all Jewish people are thieves” or “fat people are stupid and ugly”.

I pointed out that it’s not the same thing at all, because his examples aren’t true! I then insisted he come up with an example of a true, generalised statement that counts as bullying.

I gave some examples to help : “people who are five feet tall and 400lbs are obese,” and “people with dwarfism are shorter than average”. He conceded these weren’t cases of bullying, but continued to insist that saying “trans women are men”is bullying. He could give no other example where making a statement of fact is also bullying. Funny how transgenderism is exceptional in so many regards.

I then pointed out that relating facts and truths are not intended to be bullying or hateful. It’s unfortunate that some trans people get upset by hearing truths, but unfortunately the facts are the facts. And he responded that rad fems know full well that trans people get upset by such statements, and misgendering, and to persist in these activities counts as bullying. He also highly doubted that rad fems are making these statements as neutral declarations of fact - he thinks it is an attack on trans people.

(By the way- he doesn’t really think trans women are women but goes along with it to be nice.)

What are your thoughts on this? Is it bullying to say trans women are men? And even if we are not intentionally aiming to hurt people, does it make a difference if people are hurt anyway?

'coercively assigned male at birth’ .

I hate to sound like the Daily Mail but seriously, where will this madness actually end? Just when you think you've heard the most bonkers thing possible, it turns out there's even worse to come. It would be laughable if it wasn't actually being taken so seriously

That Slate article was well into Poe territory. I kept expecting the doctor to go MWAH HAH HAH and twirl his mustache.

Is every women ‘coercively assigned female at birth’ done so, purely so she can be a target for sexual harassment then?

You know with these evil doctors about, deciding which sex we are randomly at birth.

‘It’s a..... girl with a willy!’

Reminds me of Blackadder 2 with Nursie

Bela i thought that this morning!

"A boy without a winkle! Its a miracle!"

‘But then Sir Thomas Moore pointed out that a boy without a winkle is a girl, and we were disappointed’

.....ah, but look what happened to Thomas More.....!

The really scary videos are the Little Britain Emily Howard ones, simply because everyone is laughing, but nowadays she would have to be allowed to use the ladies changing rooms, ladies' swimming sessions etc etc.

They have Comic Relief skits with Robbie Williams and Sting and a few others that are very funny - but I'm sure would be considered to be transphobic. In fact, when looking for them I've noticed that a lot have been taken down, so I wonder how long before the rest go.

In the face of the logical fallacy presented as a thought ending cliche "Trans women are women" being shouted at me repeatedly I now use the term trans identified males.

'Trans-identified males are women' doesn't have quite the same ring to it, does it?

No, it does not.

UpstartCrow said.. . 23rd Jan.

"Does your partner say 'white people can be Black'? Or 'able bodied people can be disabled'?
Does he tell Black people to center white people in their activism?"

Give it time.😵

Trans-identified males are women' doesn't have quite the same ring to it, does it?

Exactly

It seems even Pontifex may be onside...

Angry. That article you posted has got me thinking. Whilst I know my answers to this, I’d love to know what the author’s and TRA’s answers to these would be:
If you don’t name sex or gender until someone is able to decide themselves, why name it at all? Why not campaign to get rid of it all together?
Why bother deciding if you are a man or a woman, why not ‘just be’?

Also, if being a man or a woman is a choice, what is important about holding the status of either one?

Do you want the polite answer or the true one? Because I suspect that for a lot of the men transitioning because of autogynephilia the reason why they'd never campaign to get rid of gender is that they'd then have nothing to wank to.

The slightly more charitable view might be that it's an emotional validation thing, and for some of the people with dysphoria it may be? They're not running the show any more, though.

I don’t think the questions are pertinent to people with dysphoria. They hate their sexed bodies and know they are sexed - as this is the cause of their distress.
I am interested in hearing from those that are content with their sexed bodies, or significant parts of them.
I would even be interested in an espoused answer as I don’t think the one you proffered is one that would be openly admitted.

I agree, but getting a TRA to answer those kinds of questions is harder than herding cats.

Weebisom

I am dying to know the outcome of you implementing the suggestions given by MN.

i.e. Ask your husband, if transwomen are women, would he (if you two split up) have sex with one and suck his lady-cock?

If he says no, then you've won the debate and he owes you a curry.