Women who don’t be believed for their reasons not to BF - a feminist issue?

[Bluedoglead]

Bear with me, I’ve posted this here because I don’t think it’s a feminist issue and I want to unpick my thoughts.

I struggle with my reasons for not BF one of my children.

I was put in a position where the decision was out of my hands.

I do think the comments around “did you try could have tried different should have tried that” are almost victim blaming and they make me very very angry and feel disbelieved.

I attempted suicide due to the horrendous time I had feeding that child. There was eons of support. I did the absolute best I could.

So why am I not just believed?

Please bear with me.My thoughts in this I find distressing and I’m trying to understand and unpick how I feel.

I think what is boils down to is that stating you do not believe any women who said she couldn't breastfeed is not a nice stance to take. It's not a helpful stance, particularly when you voice it. By the time a woman has found herself unable to feed very few are happy woth the decision, to have another person say if only you had tried a little harder is a massive kick in the teeth. It's not helping anyone. If you need to then absorb that information and maybe advise the woman prenatally with baby number two but for goodness sake don't say to the woman who's gutted she 'had to stop breastfeeds because her milk wasn't good enough that actually it was so she stopped for nothing when she's still feeling fragile over the decision.

The misinformation doesn't have to be directly related to breastfeeding either.

I was told that I shouldn't feed DD to sleep as after her last feed I should wait half an hour, brush her teeth and then put her to bed. This was about 3.5 years ago for a 5 month old baby.

My DH sat with me looking in the mirror while I tried to establish Bfing, helping me to latch. He has been hailed as a hero for that and the MW even remembered it between my first and second baby. It was me with the fucking bleeding nipples. Yet again a man with an ounce of kindness and decency is lauded and I, the woman, am "lucky."

My dad was confused as to how DH could bond with our kids while in the same breath admitting he rarely changed a napp "and never a pooey one if your mum was around"! Those are feminist issues, but help and support has come on a lot in my area even since I had my first 6 years ago.

I think what is boils down to is that stating you do not believe any women who said she couldn't breastfeed is not a nice stance to take. It's not a helpful stance, particularly when you voice it.“

And you know what? I didn’t say that. But I am obviously completely failing to make myself understood. Maybe I’ll try again later.

You know that as soon as you say “did you try” or “latest info says” that what you are doing is telling that particular woman that there’s a standard of reason that you deem high enough that she has to reach for you to “approve” her choice? You’re judging her and finding her wanting if she doesn’t meet your standards Bertrand. And that’s neither nice nor helpful.

“You know that as soon as you say “did you try” or “latest info says” that what you are doing is telling that particular woman that there’s a standard of reason that you deem high enough that she has to reach for you to “approve” her choice?”

But I don’t say that.

But you said on the other thread that most women should have tried differently.

Most women ... it would have worked if you had tried differently.

Who the fuck are you to say that to an individual woman. You cannot extrapolate from the general to the specific. And for you to have said that IS judging and setting an arbitrary standard that women must reach for you to deem their reason “acceptable”. I’m interested in why you feel YOU have the right to do that? Are you a HCP?

“But you said on the other thread that most women should have tried differently.”

No I didn’t. I said that many women who want to breastfeed take themselves to the point of exhaustion trying- but might have succeeded if they had “tried differently”. Or words to that effect. No should.

“You might have succeeded if you had tried differently”

And you can’t see the problem in that statement.

Okaaay.

I’ll ask again. Why do you feel YOU have the right to say this? Are you a HCP specialised in the area of practice?

“Most women ... it would have worked if you had tried differently.

Who the fuck are you to say that to an individual woman. ”

I didn’t say that either. And I didn’t say anything to an individual woman.

Who gave you the right to judge other women? Do you do it about other areas where women have the right to choose what happens with their own bodies?

“You might have succeeded if you had tried differently”

And you can’t see the problem in that statement. ”

I certainly see a problem with saying that in those terms to an individual woman.

But I didn’t.

What’s your skin in the game Bertrand? I mean. ARE you a HCP ?

I,m sorry, Bluedoglead- i’ve had enough of being misquoted and having motives attributed to me on zero evidence. I am very sorry you have had a crap time and I hope things get better for you very soon.

I’ve told you I find your posts aimed at me unhelpful and unkind. I’ve started this thread to unpick my own feelings in a supportive environment. I am ASTOUNDED that you continue to post at me when I’ve told you repeatedly I find your hectoring and going at me unkind.

You actually suggested I find another part of the site.

Why are you so determined to pick at me until you silence me? That’s goady. Nasty. And unkind. Why would you continue to do that? What’s this achieving for you?

bluedog i think your misinterpreting what bluedog is meaning.

I dont think blue means it as a personal attack on any individual but maybe if other advice was given , may have helped some women to continue to bf.

An example was i knew someone who really wanted to bf. Midwives told her her baby was starving and colostrum wasnt enough. They advised topping up with formula. Even when she did have baby latched on , a midwife said baby clearly wasnt getting enough and gave her a bottle. The baby hadnt been weighed from birth - how did they know 'it wasn't enough' .

Im not getting at topping up with formula, but ideally she should have been bf when baby latched on then topping up then expressing during the feed to encourage supply to ensure she could continue bf once there was no need to top up. She could also have been advised to bf on demand through day and have one nigger feed with bottle and pump during that.

What then happened was she went home and.found it really hard there on in to establish and she was gutted.

Plenty of people will judge me for saying this, but, i chose not to breast feed. I didnt like the thought of constantly having a baby stuck to my boob all day and not having any time to myself. I also cant function without a decent sleep so i liked the gaps between formula feeds. Call me selfish but thats what i needed to do to be a good mum.
No one has the right to judge you, tell them to piss off.
I dont think coming on the internet and starting threads about it is the best idea though - for you - as you will always get a few women who cant accept that not every woman wants to/ could breast feed. I honestly dont think its doing your mental health any good.
Your baby was fed and loved and that is the main thing! How old is your baby now?

There is a massive difference between the two statements

• “many women would successfully breast feed if they tried differently”

And

• “You could have successfully breast fed if you had tried differently”

Actually, they both apply to me - I was given crap advice. But the first is a statement relevant to public health and how we set women up to fail. The second is just rude and unnecessary.

You know what Bertrand. You win. I’ll fuck off here with my insufficient milk that didn’t do it’s job and you can lecture at everyone how fucking much I’m misinterpreting because wide eyed and innocent you didn’t really mean it even though you inferred it.

It’s your modus operandi and I’m stunned that you consistently get away with it.

I’m out.

TwilightRiver this happens all the time. Nhs classic. Ridiculous 'top up' advice means baby doesn't feed at the breast enough and supply doesn't establish.

Because they have their own agenda.
Some women truly believe that they have the right to override another woman's wishes, mental health and capabilities (I don't like to use that term but I mean, for when it isn't physically possible to BF), because they believe that 'breast is best' for the BABY and therefore they think they are advocates for these 'poor babies who are missing out'.
Another site is much worse for this. There are some real fucking menaces out there. They will sit in wait on formula forums and then quiz mothers all about their reasons why they are not breastfeeding. When a mother says 'because it wasn't possible', the response is a patronising, 'did you try everything? If you didn't, you've been failed, you didn't have enough support, there needs to be more support for women like you' ect. In reality, where I live, there is a WEALTH of support, and no info on formula feeding.

In reality, where I live, there is a WEALTH of support, and no info on formula feeding.

Me too, and this is hardly allowing women an informed choice either.

Where I live, when DD was born there was loads of promotion and I think support, which stopped for the summer holidays because it was all reliant on volunteers.

I think people think they really are helping though. I don't think it's intended with malice. I don't think anything I've read on this thread is intended with malice either. To someone in a good place, confident about feeding and it's benefits I'm sure they think they're being helpful coming up woth different solutions. For a mother struggling all she sees is more areas that she's failing in.
What I needed when I was struggling was a midwife with me for every feed to help me latch, reassure me my son was eating and answer any questions. I needed this for several days until my milk came in and I felt confident. What I got was to be left alone for 2 days as the poor women were rushed off their feet. To be finally told he was starving and then discharged with formula. I'd been filled to the brim with pro breastfeeding propaganda and felt an absolute failure.
I'm sure there were dozens of things I could've tried but just a few days in my mental health was deteriorating rapidly and I felt so overwhelmed that I couldn't get my head around doing anything else.
If people want to encourage BFing then they need to be a physical help. They need to give their time to sit with women and help them not just make suggestions then waltz off.
People need to be more considerate of mental health issues associated with feeding problems. It seems a no brainer that mum being alive and well is far more important than breast milk over formula but sometimes they don't know when to stop.
In the OP's case her baby needed specialist milk. This obviously devastated her and she was so used to breast feeding. No helpful tips would've made her baby thrive on her milk but I get the impression her "choice" has still been questioned by numerous people trying to be helpful with no clue of the harm they were doing.
We are rubbish at supporting breastfeeding in this country and for now at least I think the "support" often does more harm than good.

To someone in a good place, confident about feeding and it's benefits I'm sure they think they're being helpful coming up woth different solutions. For a mother struggling all she sees is more areas that she's failing in.

I welcomed all suggestions when I was struggling to bf my first babies. I think bf works in cultures where women are surrounded by extended family who all offer suggestions and advice based on experience. The thing with bf is that you often need to try loads of different things to find something that works. I think we live in a society (Uk) where advice to new mothers is taken as an unwelcome insult. HCP rarely give good advice on bf, só it leaves mothers in a very vulnerable position.

jjpp123
Completely agree: mothers need time with trained midwives. Not a few quick words and then to be left alone, panicking.