Women who don’t be believed for their reasons not to BF - a feminist issue?

[Bluedoglead]

Bear with me, I’ve posted this here because I don’t think it’s a feminist issue and I want to unpick my thoughts.

I struggle with my reasons for not BF one of my children.

I was put in a position where the decision was out of my hands.

I do think the comments around “did you try could have tried different should have tried that” are almost victim blaming and they make me very very angry and feel disbelieved.

I attempted suicide due to the horrendous time I had feeding that child. There was eons of support. I did the absolute best I could.

So why am I not just believed?

Please bear with me.My thoughts in this I find distressing and I’m trying to understand and unpick how I feel.

[Bluedoglead]

I didn’t think victim blaming was acceptable here.

The issue with the baby clinic is for me the same as if I’d HAD an abortion. Got all the info had advice and HAD the abortion.

And then. Every week. Have to turn up to a clinic and be asked over and over had I considered such n such BEFORE I had my abortion and did I do this and that and had I tried the other. Because not having an abortion was the best thing. Because not having an abortion was the absolute best thing you could do.

And I find that problematic in terms of me being allowed to decide what havens with my own body.

And I’m disappointed in MN feminists that they victim blamed when I was the one being attacked, that they fell to the crazy woman head tilt have you had counselling trope and lastly that they don’t support women wh9 have made the decision and can’t see the internalised infantilising and misogyny they project when they ask why and have you tried.

[SonicVersusGynaephobia]

Given this history and the understandable strength of your feelings on the matter a debate on MN, where posters will have a range of views and express them “robustly” probably isn’t a good idea.

Don't blame the OP for other posters' inability to not be dicks (or borderline bullies) to someone who they know is struggling.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Not every topic has to be debated, or posts robustly made. Surely it's possible and maybe even desirable to have a discussion instead.

[Namechange16]

I think that the mental health of new mothers is so important and is being eroded by breastfeeding advocates and it is such a shame. I am not trying to goad anyone especially in my last post, I just think it should be everyone's individual choice and no one should be made to feel bad about that, end of.

[AgentCooper]

I agree with you OP and I'm so sorry your distress over feeding got as bad as it did.

One thing that pissed me off no end when I was really struggling with BFing was reading posts on here saying that only something like 2% of women genuinely can't breastfeed, thus implying that most who say they can't/couldn't are lying/lazy.

I think if you stop BFing due to serious difficulty, or horrible physical or emotional pain then you have every right to say it wasn't possible for you, even if it technically/physiologically was.

It worked out for us in the end, but so much of that was down to luck, not just perseverance. I hate that women end up feeling so unhappy over feeding at such a vulnerable time.

[Dozer]

I’m really sorry you had such a rough time and were suicidal.

Given this history and the understandable strength of your feelings on the matter a debate on MN, where posters will have a range of views and express them “robustly” probably isn’t a good idea.

[AccrualIntentions]

@Namechange I was in that situation, and for me it was that I had swallowed so much of the formula is evil propaganda during pregnancy, that ff was presented as failure by so many of the midwives etc I'd been in contact with, and that no one I know bottle fed so it seemed totally alien to me. It had never for a minute occurred to me that I wouldn't bf.

All of those reasons seem completely ridiculous now, and I feel terrible that I persisted so long and spent so much time in hospital unnecessarily. I'm also a bit annoyed that the NHS colluded with me in that delusion. The health benefits of bf at an individual level are not enough to make that worth it. Apart from anything else, I probably cost the NHS thousands.

[SonicVersusGynaephobia]

why don't you just feed the baby formula so it can gain weight? What is holding you back? Is it that you're worried about the guilt and how you feel? Well to be honest with you it's time to stop worrying about how you feel and get your baby to gain weight!!

Good for you namechange, but women often aren't able to make a free choice about when to stop. That's the issue. And that's why it's a feminist issue.

[Namechange16]

I feel in situations where the baby is losing weight and the woman is trying trying trying to establish breastfeeding there comes a point when you have to wonder: why don't you just feed the baby formula so it can gain weight? What is holding you back? Is it that you're worried about the guilt and how you feel? Well to be honest with you it's time to stop worrying about how you feel and get your baby to gain weight!!

I didn't breastfeed and never felt guilty about it and I couldn't give two s what anyone thinks. It's not their baby so what do they care hiw I feed them anyway?!

[Bluedoglead]

Accrual that’s it exactly

[AccrualIntentions]

the 'did you try....' comments you and others received were almost exactly the same kind that I received about infertility during the 5 years I was trying to get pregnant.

We were TTC for 2.5 years and so, so many people persisted in doing this. It's so insensitive.

[AccrualIntentions]

@Bertie and that's as it should be. A more valid comparison with some of the experiences on this thread though would be signposting a woman who has already had an abortion towards those sources of support.

[BertieBotts]

WRT abortion - I fully support a woman's right to get an abortion if that is what feels right to her. It doesn't mean I wouldn't signpost a woman towards sources of support to keep the baby if that was something she wanted but felt was impossible.

[FurryGiraffe]

I think what this thread demonstrates very clearly is the absolute failure of the current NHS approach to breastfeeding, which lauds BF in public health messages but then fails to follow through with training and funding to actually support it.

The result of this is that you have a large number of women who want to BF but HCP who don't understand it and aren't trained to deal with it. And that lack of training means that on the one hand many many women get bad information which results in then not being able to BF as long as they wished to. And on the other hand, you have women for whom BF isn't working (sometimes because they've been given poor advice but sometimes not) but who feel unable to stop due to social/family/HCP pressure with detrimental consequences to their physical/mental health. Both these groups of women are being failed by HCP who are unable to provide them with the support (practical and emotional) that they need.

[BFnamechange]

It absolutely is a feminist issue for many of the points already made.

The lack of consistent and helpful support around initiating and sustaining breastfeeding is woeful. Just like women's access to help and support around other 'women specific' health issues.

We live in a bottle feeding culture that has stripped women's confidence in their own bodies. We expect breastfeeding to fail. That is a huge feminist issue. Once again, women are made to feel by society at large that their body's are not adequate in some way.

The way women are pitted against each other. BF vs FF. It's the oldest trick in the book to get women tearing each other down and doing the judging. This keeps us all down and as this thread proves, shuts down any reasoned debate and conversation.

Of course a woman has an absolute and final say in what she does with her own body. I've seen no one on this thread or indeed mumsnet say any different. That said our 'sexualised breasts' society must influence many women's decisions.

When it comes to believing women for their reasons for stopping I think it would take a certain type of insensitive, unaware person to question an individual face to face and disbelieve her openly. I've helped 100s of women with breastfeeding issues and if someone has stopped because she felt she couldn't or just didn't want to I've always praised her for what she has done and said she's made the right decision for her family.
I will alway believe she believes she couldn't breastfeed and I've seen many women that physically or mentally couldn't as well. The majority however could have continued but it's not their fault they didn't. It's down to myths, pressure and misinformation and as said above, an inbuilt mistrust of the abilities of our own bodies. The fact is that when offering support we need to recognise that timing is crucial and it's insensitive to overly question women once that hard decision has been made to stop.

[Phineyj]

I hope you can feel better about this OP. It's obviously something that is much on your mind.

I just wanted to say that, while I did not breast feed after a few days, because, frankly, it was fiddly, painful and I didn't want to, the 'did you try....' comments you and others received were almost exactly the same kind that I received about infertility during the 5 years I was trying to get pregnant.

It is amazing how many people find it simply impossible to say "that sounds hard, are you okay?" rather than give unwanted advice! It's the one main thing I learnt from the experience and my goodness, it sorted the sheep from the goats in terms of the people I really value in my life and those I don't.

[Estellanpip]

I get you, OP. Some people on here are very subtle at what they do to achieve what they want. I see it.

[JollyJuniper]

Nobody is calling you crazy. I suggested counselling as it helped me to deal with the anger i felt over not breastfeeding. I felt like everyone was judging me and getting at me even though they weren't. It doesnt mean i was ill or crazy but i certainly needed help to process what had happened so i could move beyond that to see that breastfeeding matters very little in the grand scheme of things. But for the first few months i felt such judgement but actually apart from a few extreme points of view, most people think "do what you need to do to raise your children".

I totally agree with you that women judging other women for their choices raising their children are anti feminist, but that happens at every stage of your childs life and over a whole range of issues. Some women dont support other women enough on the whole. Some of the comments I had about wanting an ELCS for medical reasons were absolutely ridiculous from women who pushed their babies out in a couple of hours with just gas and air. They couldn't possibly have known how I felt because I knew my birth would be difficult for actual reasons, but that didn't matter to them because to them the only right way to give birth was vaginally with no drugs. Apparently a Cesarean meant that I haven't actually given birth properly.

I don't talk to those narrow minded idiots any more.

[Bluedoglead]

I didn’t expect the feminists on mumsnet to resort to the crazy women trope.

It is a feminist issue. And there are feminists who can’t seethatthe way they approach this with outher women is misogynistic.

If I’m trustedto get info by myself to have an abortion. Why isn’t this the same? I have bodily autonomy and the way some have spoken to me around this issue smacks of forced birthers.

If, as a feminist, you would automatically accept a woman’s reason for having an abortion, because she has bodily autonomy, why not the same for this?

[hipsterfun]

That’s a pity, Barracker, your post before last was an excellent one.

You could be consoderate to this individual woman and rather than the patronising "you're not well" comments just left it.

I think it’s pretty clear the OP is struggling with something, and I doubt this thread is the issue; it’s hardly patronising to note it.

Would you rather nobody gently suggested OP seek real life help?

[BarrackerBarmer]

I've asked MNHQ to remove my posts on this thread. I choose not to debate this further on this particular thread.

Bluedoglead I wish you the best and hope you get the support you need.

[JJPP123]

As feminists you could see that the thread has clearly got out of hand for the OP and juat left it alone. You could be consoderate to this individual woman and rather than the patronising "you're not well" comments just left it.

[okMaybeIAmATERF]

Bluedoglead, you are clearly unwell at present. This thread is not going to help. Please step away from the internet and reach out to some real-life help.