Women who don’t be believed for their reasons not to BF - a feminist issue?

[Bluedoglead]

Bear with me, I’ve posted this here because I don’t think it’s a feminist issue and I want to unpick my thoughts.

I struggle with my reasons for not BF one of my children.

I was put in a position where the decision was out of my hands.

I do think the comments around “did you try could have tried different should have tried that” are almost victim blaming and they make me very very angry and feel disbelieved.

I attempted suicide due to the horrendous time I had feeding that child. There was eons of support. I did the absolute best I could.

So why am I not just believed?

Please bear with me.My thoughts in this I find distressing and I’m trying to understand and unpick how I feel.

[KalaLaka]

And it is a bottom line frequently not met by the health care establishment

True.

bluedog I think you may be taking Bertrand's comments as personal insults when they are not.

[Bluedoglead]

I’m just astounded at the arrogance of someone who carries on when they know they’re upsetting someone, when they know their comments aren't helpful, and when they’ve been asked to stop.

[KalaLaka]

You've opened a thread on a general topic, inspired by your personal experience. You're getting a normal mn response; actually one with a lot of empathy. No one is goading you.

[Bluedoglead]

I find it goading. I am finding it upsetting. I have asked that Bertrand stop and she has continued to blunder on.

That’s rude. And very socially unaware. But then. Keyboards kind of do that.

[BertrandRussell]

Blimey. I didn’t realize that me posting at all upset you. Please understand that it was never my intention. Please report any posts you consider goady. And I won’t post on this thread again.

[stuffstuffeverywhere]

There is a lot of guilt around not breastfeeding.

I suspect that a lot of women say they couldn't, when what they really mean is they didn't want to. I can understand that. Who wants to be seen as less of a mother or be shamed for not trying hard enough?

[Bluedoglead]

I asked you not to. I asked you to stop. You carried on. Even after I’d repeatedly made it clear I found you exceedingly upsetting



That being said. Thank you.

[Rhodes2015again]

My DD is 6 months.
She’s FF. I never had any intention of BF because I just didn’t want to and no one has ever questioned my choice, not even my midwife when she asked me how I plan to feed.

[JollyJuniper]

You're over reacting to bertrand. She isnt goading you at all and she's saying women should be given sufficient support to make free choices around feeding their child as best they can. If you actually never had a choice then all the support in the world isn't going to help. I couldn't bf, my milk never came in. I had some support but it made no difference, my body couldn't do it. The fact that other people are able to should be irrelevant to me and it is now.

Answering your original question, the lack of feeding support is a feminist issue. That's both from HCPs and other women. Women should have adequate support in place to be able to feed which ever way suits them. I get it, I've been there with the jealousy that other women can bf and i couldn't. I agree that a lot of the social attitude around birth and post natal issues is pretty much that women should just get over it. That's most certainly a feminist issue.

If you were looking for support and not a debate then you perhaps should have phrased your op differently because from your subsequent responses it's clear that a debate is not going to help you at this point in time. People are responding to the question you asked and not about your situation specifically. I hope you can manage to find some real life support to work through your issues around breastfeeding.

[okMaybeIAmATERF]

Bluedoglead, you are clearly unwell at present. This thread is not going to help. Please step away from the internet and reach out to some real-life help.

[JJPP123]

As feminists you could see that the thread has clearly got out of hand for the OP and juat left it alone. You could be consoderate to this individual woman and rather than the patronising "you're not well" comments just left it.

[BarrackerBarmer]

I've asked MNHQ to remove my posts on this thread. I choose not to debate this further on this particular thread.

Bluedoglead I wish you the best and hope you get the support you need.

[hipsterfun]

That’s a pity, Barracker, your post before last was an excellent one.

You could be consoderate to this individual woman and rather than the patronising "you're not well" comments just left it.

I think it’s pretty clear the OP is struggling with something, and I doubt this thread is the issue; it’s hardly patronising to note it.

Would you rather nobody gently suggested OP seek real life help?

[Bluedoglead]

I didn’t expect the feminists on mumsnet to resort to the crazy women trope.

It is a feminist issue. And there are feminists who can’t seethatthe way they approach this with outher women is misogynistic.

If I’m trustedto get info by myself to have an abortion. Why isn’t this the same? I have bodily autonomy and the way some have spoken to me around this issue smacks of forced birthers.

If, as a feminist, you would automatically accept a woman’s reason for having an abortion, because she has bodily autonomy, why not the same for this?

[JollyJuniper]

Nobody is calling you crazy. I suggested counselling as it helped me to deal with the anger i felt over not breastfeeding. I felt like everyone was judging me and getting at me even though they weren't. It doesnt mean i was ill or crazy but i certainly needed help to process what had happened so i could move beyond that to see that breastfeeding matters very little in the grand scheme of things. But for the first few months i felt such judgement but actually apart from a few extreme points of view, most people think "do what you need to do to raise your children".

I totally agree with you that women judging other women for their choices raising their children are anti feminist, but that happens at every stage of your childs life and over a whole range of issues. Some women dont support other women enough on the whole. Some of the comments I had about wanting an ELCS for medical reasons were absolutely ridiculous from women who pushed their babies out in a couple of hours with just gas and air. They couldn't possibly have known how I felt because I knew my birth would be difficult for actual reasons, but that didn't matter to them because to them the only right way to give birth was vaginally with no drugs. Apparently a Cesarean meant that I haven't actually given birth properly.

I don't talk to those narrow minded idiots any more.

[Estellanpip]

I get you, OP. Some people on here are very subtle at what they do to achieve what they want. I see it.

[Phineyj]

I hope you can feel better about this OP. It's obviously something that is much on your mind.

I just wanted to say that, while I did not breast feed after a few days, because, frankly, it was fiddly, painful and I didn't want to, the 'did you try....' comments you and others received were almost exactly the same kind that I received about infertility during the 5 years I was trying to get pregnant.

It is amazing how many people find it simply impossible to say "that sounds hard, are you okay?" rather than give unwanted advice! It's the one main thing I learnt from the experience and my goodness, it sorted the sheep from the goats in terms of the people I really value in my life and those I don't.

[BFnamechange]

It absolutely is a feminist issue for many of the points already made.

The lack of consistent and helpful support around initiating and sustaining breastfeeding is woeful. Just like women's access to help and support around other 'women specific' health issues.

We live in a bottle feeding culture that has stripped women's confidence in their own bodies. We expect breastfeeding to fail. That is a huge feminist issue. Once again, women are made to feel by society at large that their body's are not adequate in some way.

The way women are pitted against each other. BF vs FF. It's the oldest trick in the book to get women tearing each other down and doing the judging. This keeps us all down and as this thread proves, shuts down any reasoned debate and conversation.

Of course a woman has an absolute and final say in what she does with her own body. I've seen no one on this thread or indeed mumsnet say any different. That said our 'sexualised breasts' society must influence many women's decisions.

When it comes to believing women for their reasons for stopping I think it would take a certain type of insensitive, unaware person to question an individual face to face and disbelieve her openly. I've helped 100s of women with breastfeeding issues and if someone has stopped because she felt she couldn't or just didn't want to I've always praised her for what she has done and said she's made the right decision for her family.
I will alway believe she believes she couldn't breastfeed and I've seen many women that physically or mentally couldn't as well. The majority however could have continued but it's not their fault they didn't. It's down to myths, pressure and misinformation and as said above, an inbuilt mistrust of the abilities of our own bodies. The fact is that when offering support we need to recognise that timing is crucial and it's insensitive to overly question women once that hard decision has been made to stop.

[FurryGiraffe]

I think what this thread demonstrates very clearly is the absolute failure of the current NHS approach to breastfeeding, which lauds BF in public health messages but then fails to follow through with training and funding to actually support it.

The result of this is that you have a large number of women who want to BF but HCP who don't understand it and aren't trained to deal with it. And that lack of training means that on the one hand many many women get bad information which results in then not being able to BF as long as they wished to. And on the other hand, you have women for whom BF isn't working (sometimes because they've been given poor advice but sometimes not) but who feel unable to stop due to social/family/HCP pressure with detrimental consequences to their physical/mental health. Both these groups of women are being failed by HCP who are unable to provide them with the support (practical and emotional) that they need.

[BertieBotts]

WRT abortion - I fully support a woman's right to get an abortion if that is what feels right to her. It doesn't mean I wouldn't signpost a woman towards sources of support to keep the baby if that was something she wanted but felt was impossible.

[AccrualIntentions]

@Bertie and that's as it should be. A more valid comparison with some of the experiences on this thread though would be signposting a woman who has already had an abortion towards those sources of support.

[AccrualIntentions]

the 'did you try....' comments you and others received were almost exactly the same kind that I received about infertility during the 5 years I was trying to get pregnant.

We were TTC for 2.5 years and so, so many people persisted in doing this. It's so insensitive.

[Bluedoglead]

Accrual that’s it exactly